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Post by lividihard on Feb 3, 2016 16:21:44 GMT 1
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Post by toughatthetop on Feb 3, 2016 18:18:44 GMT 1
To be honest not really any surprises there feel sorry for his wife tho she's just had a kid but I would also say we were stupid taking him back on the outcome was inevitable
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 3, 2016 19:00:48 GMT 1
Very disappointed; I have stuck up for the big fella throughout this as I was convinced that there must be a decent reason for appeal but the story as reported suggests it was a pretty tenuous reason that was being argued & there was never a chance the appeal would be upheld & the conviction overturned.
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Pedro
Administrator
Posts: 1,172
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Post by Pedro on Feb 3, 2016 22:47:27 GMT 1
Jail is the best place for the bad bastard.
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Post by colcal on Feb 3, 2016 22:55:31 GMT 1
Assuming he's guilty, then he deserves what he's been given. The fact that he's a footballer is, of course, irrelevant. I hope the person he brutally assaulted has made a full recovery.
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Post by Benedict Le Gauche on Feb 4, 2016 0:13:41 GMT 1
This reminds me of a joke I heard a while back.....
This guy is convicted of cracking someones skull with a baseball bat. So he goes to jail and goes inside his cell. Inside he meets Bubba. Bubba is a 25 stone bald headed behemoth of a man. Bubba says to him "would you like to be mummy or daddy?" The guy thinks quickly, hes not stupid, he can see where this is going. "I'll be daddy" he says. Bubba replies "well come over here and suck mummys cock then".
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 4, 2016 8:57:10 GMT 1
Assuming he's guilty, then he deserves what he's been given. The fact that he's a footballer is, of course, irrelevant. I hope the person he brutally assaulted has made a full recovery. Totally agree. One of the strange things about trial by jury is that they can at times make the wrong assessment of the evidence and wrongly convict. Big Dec of course had admitted he was involved but denied the use of an "implement" - presumably if the jury had believed his side of the story then the sentence may not have been as much as 3 years...which when you consider what he has been convicted of is actually quite a light sentence.
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Post by durnford on Feb 4, 2016 11:14:24 GMT 1
Guys - I am aware that some of the players read these boards and are probably good friends with Gallagher. Some of the comments here are hardly likely to improve their relationship with the fans.
Unless someone has something constructive to say can we be a bit more circumspect please.
From my perspective and as far as I am concerned the matter is closed
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Post by bobafett on Feb 4, 2016 22:52:50 GMT 1
Assuming he's guilty, then he deserves what he's been given. The fact that he's a footballer is, of course, irrelevant. I hope the person he brutally assaulted has made a full recovery. He was found guilty by a jury of his peers, he appealled that decision and was released pending a review of his case, now that appeal has been heard and three judges have upheld the original guilty verdict so I am afraid, for me, one has to assume that he is guilty
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Post by bawbag on Feb 4, 2016 23:00:16 GMT 1
Shame for Livi as he was the only class player in the team .
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 5, 2016 0:49:37 GMT 1
Assuming he's guilty, then he deserves what he's been given. The fact that he's a footballer is, of course, irrelevant. I hope the person he brutally assaulted has made a full recovery. He was found guilty by a jury of his peers, he appealled that decision and was released pending a review of his case, now that appeal has been heard and three judges have upheld the original guilty verdict so I am afraid, for me, one has to assume that he is guilty Of course he was guilty of some involvement, he admitted it, he also expressed remorse at his involvement. He denied using an "implement" during the incident. All this was out in the open before he ever signed for us the first time. It was hoped that character references would mitigate his guilt & that his denial of wielding an "implement" would be believed resulting in a suspended sentence or a heavy fine. Unfortunately it didn't pan out that way. The appeal was lodged on the basis of the judge misdirecting the jury but looks to have been a long shot at best...it appears the jury were not totally convinced of the use of a baseball bat & wanted the phrase "baseball bat or similar implement" removed from the charge & the judge allowed them to delete "baseball bat or similar" - Dec's lawyer thought that was misdirection & that the jury were then unable to deliver the verdict they wanted to deliver. Presumably, he thought the jury didn't think a bat was used but it seems the judge did, they couldn't find him not guilty so any guilty verdict meant he did it using an "implement" & was sentenced accordingly. However, being found guilty by a jury is not a guarantee of guilt it is simply the verdict the jury arrived at. Juries have been known to be wrong. In this case it wasn't so much a case of determining his guilt but of determining whether or not he used an "implement". There seems to have been some doubt for the jury to seek a change in the charge. On a side issue, slightly disappointed with the official club statement on this.
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Post by liviman on Feb 5, 2016 8:17:49 GMT 1
He was found guilty by a jury of his peers, he appealled that decision and was released pending a review of his case, now that appeal has been heard and three judges have upheld the original guilty verdict so I am afraid, for me, one has to assume that he is guilty However, being found guilty by a jury is not a guarantee of guilt it is simply the verdict the jury arrived at. Juries have been known to be wrong. In this case it wasn't so much a case of determining his guilt but of determining whether or not he used an "implement". There seems to have been some doubt for the jury to seek a change in the charge. On a side issue, slightly disappointed with the official club statement on this. Christ you are now bringing into question our legal system. Had the jury got it wrong he wouldn't be in jail right now. He was guilty full stop This boy has been convicted and should never have been re-signed by the club. Fords statement in August puts a sour taste in my mouth.
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 5, 2016 8:33:03 GMT 1
So you think our legal system is not open to question? You think every case always results in the correct outcome? Too many wrong convictions have happened over the years. A trial by jury comes down to who the jury believe, which can be decided by which lawyer and set of witnesses is the most convincing... and the thing is people lie with impunity.
I'm not talking about Dec's case here, he admitted he was involved, his guilt was never in question, it was the severity of his involvement that was in doubt. Bad enough that he was involved at all but the only real question was did he use an "implement" which is clearly worse. There seems to have been some doubt in the juries minds based on what I read of the case and the appeal.
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Post by LiviLion21 on Feb 5, 2016 14:20:55 GMT 1
I wasn't there when the incident happened so have no idea if he did or didn't do it.
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Post by bobafett on Feb 5, 2016 18:43:55 GMT 1
Bad enough that he was involved at all but the only real question was did he use an "implement" which is clearly worse. There seems to have been some doubt in the juries minds based on what I read of the case and the appeal. If there was sufficient doubt in the Jury's mind then perhaps the verdict would have been one of 'Not Proven', or if there was no doubt at all 'Not Guilty' Problem with a lot of Defence lawyers is that they view the Appeals Process as an opportunity to make more money by re-selling their services again whilst providing the justification of some perceived miscarriage of justice to deflecr from their losing the original case. Thing for me is that he was there which means he put himself in that situation and even if he wasn't the one who swung the "implement" then, unlike the victim who lost consciousness, he knows full well who did
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Post by liviman on Feb 5, 2016 19:53:55 GMT 1
I wasn't there when the incident happened so have no idea if he did or didn't do it. Neither was the judge or the jury, but based on the evidence presented he done it.
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Post by liviman on Feb 5, 2016 19:55:46 GMT 1
So you think our legal system is not open to question? You think every case always results in the correct outcome? Too many wrong convictions have happened over the years. A trial by jury comes down to who the jury believe, which can be decided by which lawyer and set of witnesses is the most convincing... and the thing is people lie with impunity. I'm not talking about Dec's case here, he admitted he was involved, his guilt was never in question, it was the severity of his involvement that was in doubt. Bad enough that he was involved at all but the only real question was did he use an "implement" which is clearly worse. There seems to have been some doubt in the juries minds based on what I read of the case and the appeal. Based on the evidence presented at the case he done it that's why a guilty verdict was reached.
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Post by toughatthetop on Feb 5, 2016 20:27:53 GMT 1
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Post by colcal on Feb 5, 2016 21:55:13 GMT 1
Guys - I am aware that some of the players read these boards and are probably good friends with Gallagher. Some of the comments here are hardly likely to improve their relationship with the fans. Unless someone has something constructive to say can we be a bit more circumspect please. From my perspective and as far as I am concerned the matter is closed Thanks for the offer but I'm happy to talk about anything I fancy without anyone telling me what is, and isn't, acceptable to them. I supported Gallagher when he was released pending his appeal, accepting that due process was being followed and that he was therefore presumed innocent until found guilty. Now that the same due process has been completed and he's been found guilty, then he has to pay for it. The official website statement is bizarre in the circumstances. A simple comment that, since he has now been convicted according to the law, his employment has been terminated. His team mates, if they really do read this forum, will understand that being a footballer doesn't exclude them from the legal process.
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 6, 2016 1:35:04 GMT 1
So you think our legal system is not open to question? You think every case always results in the correct outcome? Too many wrong convictions have happened over the years. A trial by jury comes down to who the jury believe, which can be decided by which lawyer and set of witnesses is the most convincing... and the thing is people lie with impunity. I'm not talking about Dec's case here, he admitted he was involved, his guilt was never in question, it was the severity of his involvement that was in doubt. Bad enough that he was involved at all but the only real question was did he use an "implement" which is clearly worse. There seems to have been some doubt in the juries minds based on what I read of the case and the appeal. Based on the evidence presented at the case he done it that's why a guilty verdict was reached. Were you on the jury? I'll say it again for the hard of understanding: 1.He admitted his involvement, expressed remorse for his involvement but denied using an "implement" 2.The jury asked that the charge be re-written so that the words "baseball bat or similar implement" would be removed from the charge = suggests they didn't think he used an "implement" 3.The judge refused to remove all of the words from the charge insisting that "implement" remained. = suggests he thought that he did use an "implement" 4.As he had admitted being involved the jury couldn't then find him not guilty or "not proven" as it was a single charge. 5.The appeal was based on the suggestion that the jury wanted to find him guilty of the assault but not guilty of using an "implement". 6.The appeal failed because the appeal court didn't think the judge misguided the jury. Based on what I am seeing if there had been 2 charges - 1 of basic assault & the other of using an "implement" then he would have been found guilty of the first & not guilty/proven on the second. As I have said it was bad enough that he was involved but at least he showed remorse & his behaviour as a Livi player seems to have been pretty good. He denied using an "implement" & the jury appears to have agreed or been unconvinced that he did but their hands were tied. I'm fairly certain his sentence would have been lighter without the "implement" coming into the equation.
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 6, 2016 1:38:16 GMT 1
Lucky to get only 3 years and btw his mate got more You are right; the sentence was apparently at the lenient end of the "scale".
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 6, 2016 1:41:03 GMT 1
Guys - I am aware that some of the players read these boards and are probably good friends with Gallagher. Some of the comments here are hardly likely to improve their relationship with the fans. Unless someone has something constructive to say can we be a bit more circumspect please. From my perspective and as far as I am concerned the matter is closed Thanks for the offer but I'm happy to talk about anything I fancy without anyone telling me what is, and isn't, acceptable to them. I supported Gallagher when he was released pending his appeal, accepting that due process was being followed and that he was therefore presumed innocent until found guilty. Now that the same due process has been completed and he's been found guilty, then he has to pay for it. The official website statement is bizarre in the circumstances. A simple comment that, since he has now been convicted according to the law, his employment has been terminated. His team mates, if they really do read this forum, will understand that being a footballer doesn't exclude them from the legal process. Pretty well agree with this; although I also tend to agree with Durnford that is now time to move on.
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Post by liviman on Feb 6, 2016 16:25:12 GMT 1
Guys - I am aware that some of the players read these boards and are probably good friends with Gallagher. Some of the comments here are hardly likely to improve their relationship with the fans. Unless someone has something constructive to say can we be a bit more circumspect please. From my perspective and as far as I am concerned the matter is closed I couldn't care a jot that players read the board. We have had someone convicted on a criminal offence playing in our team since last August and that was wrong on all fronts. the club made a HUGE mistake re-signing Gallacher
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Post by liviman on Feb 6, 2016 16:29:34 GMT 1
Based on the evidence presented at the case he done it that's why a guilty verdict was reached. Were you on the jury? I'll say it again for the hard of understanding: 1.He admitted his involvement, expressed remorse for his involvement but denied using an "implement" 2.The jury asked that the charge be re-written so that the words "baseball bat or similar implement" would be removed from the charge = suggests they didn't think he used an "implement" 3.The judge refused to remove all of the words from the charge insisting that "implement" remained. = suggests he thought that he did use an "implement" 4.As he had admitted being involved the jury couldn't then find him not guilty or "not proven" as it was a single charge. 5.The appeal was based on the suggestion that the jury wanted to find him guilty of the assault but not guilty of using an "implement". 6.The appeal failed because the appeal court didn't think the judge misguided the jury. Based on what I am seeing if there had been 2 charges - 1 of basic assault & the other of using an "implement" then he would have been found guilty of the first & not guilty/proven on the second. As I have said it was bad enough that he was involved but at least he showed remorse & his behaviour as a Livi player seems to have been pretty good. He denied using an "implement" & the jury appears to have agreed or been unconvinced that he did but their hands were tied. I'm fairly certain his sentence would have been lighter without the "implement" coming into the equation. What is it you are debating? His lawyer presented a case and the defence presented a case and based on this evidence he was convicted and jailed. His lawyer tried to get him off on a technicality, but that failed also. I believe in our legal system and accept mistakes can happen, but the appeal judges threw it out. We even have a not proven verdict, but that wasn't the case here.
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 7, 2016 0:13:16 GMT 1
Your inability to understand the concept that he admitted in court that he was involved. They couldn't find "not proven" because of this. It was a single charge and the judge refused to remove the element of having used an implement, thus they could only find him guilty even though it would appear they wanted the use of any kind of implement removed. So your statement "based on the evidence etc" isn't as accurate as you seem to think... And the club didn't make a huge mistake.
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