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Post by durnford on Feb 7, 2016 3:01:32 GMT 1
Guys - I am aware that some of the players read these boards and are probably good friends with Gallagher. Some of the comments here are hardly likely to improve their relationship with the fans. Unless someone has something constructive to say can we be a bit more circumspect please. From my perspective and as far as I am concerned the matter is closed Thanks for the offer but I'm happy to talk about anything I fancy without anyone telling me what is, and isn't, acceptable to them. I supported Gallagher when he was released pending his appeal, accepting that due process was being followed and that he was therefore presumed innocent until found guilty. Now that the same due process has been completed and he's been found guilty, then he has to pay for it. The official website statement is bizarre in the circumstances. A simple comment that, since he has now been convicted according to the law, his employment has been terminated. His team mates, if they really do read this forum, will understand that being a footballer doesn't exclude them from the legal process. Not sure what you think I'm offering here that you feel you need to thank me for? I was not telling people what to discuss but more against the name calling, e.g. "bastard", and comments about him being molested in gaol. As far as I can see you haven't made any such comments With regard to the players I believe Jordan White has already said that he still believes his friend to be innocent; he's probably not the only one either. My biggest concern though, somewhat selfishly probably, is that we are 6 points behind 8th place with one game less to play - we are almost into the last third of the season - Last season we were in a worst position but we had the players willing to work as a team to pull us out. As the majority of the present team will probably not be with us next season will they feel they need to bother; professional or not? This is really one more bit of crap we, as Livi fans, really do not need. Just a thought - but for the sake of clarification I did not tell people what to discuss even if I don't think there's much point as the guy certainly wont be playing professional football again until at least 2017
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Post by liviman on Feb 7, 2016 9:12:48 GMT 1
Thanks for the offer but I'm happy to talk about anything I fancy without anyone telling me what is, and isn't, acceptable to them. I supported Gallagher when he was released pending his appeal, accepting that due process was being followed and that he was therefore presumed innocent until found guilty. Now that the same due process has been completed and he's been found guilty, then he has to pay for it. The official website statement is bizarre in the circumstances. A simple comment that, since he has now been convicted according to the law, his employment has been terminated. His team mates, if they really do read this forum, will understand that being a footballer doesn't exclude them from the legal process. Not sure what you think I'm offering here that you feel you need to thank me for? I was not telling people what to discuss but more against the name calling, e.g. "bastard", and comments about him being molested in gaol. As far as I can see you haven't made any such comments With regard to the players I believe Jordan White has already said that he still believes his friend to be innocent; he's probably not the only one either. My biggest concern though, somewhat selfishly probably, is that we are 6 points behind 8th place with one game less to play - we are almost into the last third of the season - Last season we were in a worst position but we had the players willing to work as a team to pull us out. As the majority of the present team will probably not be with us next season will they feel they need to bother; professional or not? This is really one more bit of crap we, as Livi fans, really do not need. Just a thought - but for the sake of clarification I did not tell people what to discuss even if I don't think there's much point as the guy certainly wont be playing professional football again until at least 2017 Christ the moral of the story is tell the players not to read the fans boards.
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Post by liviman on Feb 7, 2016 9:16:33 GMT 1
Your inability to understand the concept that he admitted in court that he was involved. They couldn't find "not proven" because of this. It was a single charge and the judge refused to remove the element of having used an implement, thus they could only find him guilty even though it would appear they wanted the use of any kind of implement removed. So your statement "based on the evidence etc" isn't as accurate as you seem to think... And the club didn't make a huge mistake. He was guilty and is in jail for 3yrs (prob 18 months) that part is fact according to court records - you disputing that? regards the Club they were wrong and he should never have been re-signed. When they signed him the first time he wasn't guilty.
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 7, 2016 10:47:04 GMT 1
At what point in any of this have I said he was innocent and not sentenced to 3 years???
Whether or not they were right to sign him has been argued previously and neither side of the argument conceded, it became a pointless debate and doesn't need re-hashing. We disagree, it's not the end of the world.
Your final sentence is nonsense I'm afraid. The incedent happened before he signed the first time. He was as guilty then as he is now the only difference was he hadn't been tried for it. By your logic, if someone does something illegal but isn't caught then they are innocent..which as I have said, is nonsense.
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Post by liviman on Feb 7, 2016 12:54:37 GMT 1
At what point in any of this have I said he was innocent and not sentenced to 3 years??? Whether or not they were right to sign him has been argued previously and neither side of the argument conceded, it became a pointless debate and doesn't need re-hashing. We disagree, it's not the end of the world. Your final sentence is nonsense I'm afraid. The incedent happened before he signed the first time. He was as guilty then as he is now the only difference was he hadn't been tried for it. By your logic, if someone does something illegal but isn't caught then they are innocent..which as I have said, is nonsense. You are being twisted. I bow out Sir!
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 7, 2016 16:11:43 GMT 1
You read what I post and suggest I am saying something else.... I take what you have said and extrapolate it to its logical conclusion.... And I'm being twisted? Hmmm.
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Post by italion on Feb 7, 2016 18:53:11 GMT 1
At what point in any of this have I said he was innocent and not sentenced to 3 years??? Whether or not they were right to sign him has been argued previously and neither side of the argument conceded, it became a pointless debate and doesn't need re-hashing. We disagree, it's not the end of the world. Your final sentence is nonsense I'm afraid. The incedent happened before he signed the first time. He was as guilty then as he is now the only difference was he hadn't been tried for it. By your logic, if someone does something illegal but isn't caught then they are innocent..which as I have said, is nonsense. What utter rubbish! Of course the club were wrong to sign him. There was no argument as far a many people were concerned. He was a convicted thug and his appeal was not based on any new evidence and was bound to fail. Either way the club did the wrong thing and signed him. To compound their arrogance they even have a smiling photograph of Gallagher along with the statement instead of just a short statement. It is about time Mr Ford, or whoever he is fronting for, to start running the club in a fit and proper manner.
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 7, 2016 21:24:55 GMT 1
Sorry italion, my apologies for disagreeing with someone such as yourself, you are clearly someone who has never done anything they need be ashamed of nor had the need to express remorse as obviously your behaviour, like your opinion, is always 100% right, how could I have had the temerity to hold an opposing view to you. It won't happen again.
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Post by liviman on Feb 7, 2016 21:29:28 GMT 1
At what point in any of this have I said he was innocent and not sentenced to 3 years??? Whether or not they were right to sign him has been argued previously and neither side of the argument conceded, it became a pointless debate and doesn't need re-hashing. We disagree, it's not the end of the world. Your final sentence is nonsense I'm afraid. The incedent happened before he signed the first time. He was as guilty then as he is now the only difference was he hadn't been tried for it. By your logic, if someone does something illegal but isn't caught then they are innocent..which as I have said, is nonsense. What utter rubbish! Of course the club were wrong to sign him. There was no argument as far a many people were concerned. He was a convicted thug and his appeal was not based on any new evidence and was bound to fail. Either way the club did the wrong thing and signed him. To compound their arrogance they even have a smiling photograph of Gallagher along with the statement instead of just a short statement. It is about time Mr Ford, or whoever he is fronting for, to start running the club in a fit and proper manner.
This gentleman talks total sense - hallelujah!
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 8, 2016 2:36:04 GMT 1
You forgot "non"
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Post by jonsnow on Feb 8, 2016 6:54:31 GMT 1
I hope Gallagher signs for us when he gets out, he could easily have been playing in the SPFL Premiership if this hadn't been hanging over him, we were lucky to have him.
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Post by italion on Feb 8, 2016 11:35:09 GMT 1
I hope Gallagher signs for us when he gets out, he could easily have been playing in the SPFL Premiership if this hadn't been hanging over him, we were lucky to have him. This is why I don't get involved in serious discussion on these boards. You cannot condone his actions and you certainly cannot advocate his return. This serious assault was one blow away from murder.
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Post by Mr Angry on Feb 8, 2016 12:16:59 GMT 1
It is about time Mr Ford, or whoever he is fronting for, to start running the club in a fit and proper manner.
This.
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Post by livifc67 on Feb 8, 2016 13:27:13 GMT 1
I've had so many lovely messages from friends, family & strangers over the past few days and I would just like to thank every single one of you for the support that you've shown towards Declan, myself, Shay & our families. I'm so glad that everyone that knows Declan, knows that he's not capable of the crime that he's been accused of and that's all that matters to us. Because of the legal system, Declan and our families have not been allowed to speak up and tell our side (the way that others have been able to, going to the press etc) but now that the system has let him down I hope that we can speak up very soon. Declan is in a place that he should never ever have to be in and has been taken away from his daughter which is heartbreaking. Together as a family we will get through it and will come out the other end stronger. ❤️ thank you everyone xxx
This was something Declan's wife posted on Facebook. I think we have to remember that not everyone that's found guilty is actually guilty. The justice system seems to be getting worse these days and from what I've heard Declan's solicitor at the time of the trial messed things up completely. He thought nothing was going to come of the case as there was no evidence and he was sending his juniors to deal with the trials. I also read on a comment on the Daily Record Facebook someone that attended the court case said the witnesses changed their statements from the original statements they gave at the time and seemed like they were completely lying. It's a shame really if this is true...
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 8, 2016 13:35:02 GMT 1
I hope Gallagher signs for us when he gets out, he could easily have been playing in the SPFL Premiership if this hadn't been hanging over him, we were lucky to have him. This is why I don't get involved in serious discussion on these boards. You cannot condone his actions and you certainly cannot advocate his return. This serious assault was one blow away from murder. This is what frustrates me about trying to have serious discussions on these boards; people don't actually read what is posted but jump on snippets & gnaw at them like a dog with a bone. No one is condoning his actions. And of course we can advocate his return; that is a matter of opinion & whether you like it or not our opinion is as valid as yours. You are correct it was a very serious assault...but even the jury had some doubt as to whether Declan used a "baseball bat or similar implement" in that assault; they asked for that to removed from the charge. The judge refused to remove it but agreed to modify it; as he had admitted his involvement they couldn't find him not guilty or not proven. Also, any assault is "one blow away from murder", it only takes one blow to kill someone depending on the severity of the blow. Thankfully it wasn't murder.
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Post by livimoaner on Feb 8, 2016 14:27:15 GMT 1
I've had so many lovely messages from friends, family & strangers over the past few days and I would just like to thank every single one of you for the support that you've shown towards Declan, myself, Shay & our families. I'm so glad that everyone that knows Declan, knows that he's not capable of the crime that he's been accused of and that's all that matters to us. Because of the legal system, Declan and our families have not been allowed to speak up and tell our side (the way that others have been able to, going to the press etc) but now that the system has let him down I hope that we can speak up very soon. Declan is in a place that he should never ever have to be in and has been taken away from his daughter which is heartbreaking. Together as a family we will get through it and will come out the other end stronger. ❤️ thank you everyone xxx This was something Declan's wife posted on Facebook. I think we have to remember that not everyone that's found guilty is actually guilty. The justice system seems to be getting worse these days and from what I've heard Declan's solicitor at the time of the trial messed things up completely. He thought nothing was going to come of the case as there was no evidence and he was sending his juniors to deal with the trials. I also read on a comment on the Daily Record Facebook someone that attended the court case said the witnesses changed their statements from the original statements they gave at the time and seemed like they were completely lying. It's a shame really if this is true... While acting with others they repeatedly punched and kicked him on the head and body and knocked him to the ground and struck him on the head with a baseball bat or similar implement. The victim suffered head wounds, a fractured skull and brain haemorrhage. A paramedic kept talking to him to try to keep him conscious as he was taken to hospital after the assault. The sheriff said: "I considered that the sentence of three years which I imposed was at the lower end of the scale for a crime of such gravity, being a vicious assault with a weapon causing danger to life." Gordon Jackson QC, who appeared for both men, argued the sheriff had erred in responding to a question from jurors. Advocate depute Ashley Edwards maintained there had been no misdirection and told appeal judges: "There was no confusion in his directions." Lady Smith, who heard the appeal with Lord Drummond Young and Lady Clark of Calton, said the jury had posed a question over whether or not they could delete the phrase "baseball bat or similar implement" from the charge. The sheriff held a discussion with the prosecutor and defence before addressing jurors. Mr Jackson said his address amounted to a misdirection, particularly as he had indicated they could leave the word "implement" and delete "baseball bat or similar". He argued there was a real possibility the jury did not do what was in their contemplation because of the sheriff's direction. Lady Smith said they were not satisfied that what had occurred amounted to a misdirection by the trial sheriff. I think that the appeal made it clear that even Declan's legal representative thinks he had done it, the appeal was arguing whether or not an implement was used, because assault causing actual bodily harm carries a higher tariff that one just done "by hand". SO DECLAN WAS GUILTY. To which end the post on face book about Declan being where he should not be.... 1 He is an adult and can his own choices, he did not have to drink, did not have to get involved in the assault. 2 he could have acted as demanded by our legal system and protected the victim and if was not not capable of doing so should have contacted the police (minimum action required) and should have acted as a witness on the victims behalf. His choices means he is going to jail, Declan is not a victim, he is a villain. For those that are not fully aware of the law you have a duty of care to your fellow man and must act to protect them from assault and injury, there is also a burden of evidence that you are required to cooperate fully with inquiries made about such crimes.
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Post by toughatthetop on Feb 8, 2016 15:29:15 GMT 1
Does his wife not realise that his brief probably got the charges down a bit it's like playing cat and mouse lawyers v the crown
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Post by jonsnow on Feb 8, 2016 16:05:00 GMT 1
I hope Gallagher signs for us when he gets out, he could easily have been playing in the SPFL Premiership if this hadn't been hanging over him, we were lucky to have him. This is why I don't get involved in serious discussion on these boards. You cannot condone his actions and you certainly cannot advocate his return. This serious assault was one blow away from murder. Everything isn't always black and white though, just because you don't want to give anyone the benefit of the doubt and live in a world where nobody deserves a 2nd chance doesn't mean everyone shares your views.
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Pedro
Administrator
Posts: 1,172
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Post by Pedro on Feb 8, 2016 16:11:51 GMT 1
It's a great pity that it has come to this but his guilty conviction has been confirmed, so that, as they say, is that.
What a mess.
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Post by toughatthetop on Feb 8, 2016 16:12:07 GMT 1
Does his wife not realise that his brief probably got the charges down a bit it's like playing cat and mouse lawyers v the crown
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Post by toughatthetop on Feb 8, 2016 16:13:09 GMT 1
Everyone in the big hotels are innocent fact
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Post by durnford on Feb 8, 2016 16:41:25 GMT 1
It's a great pity that it has come to this but his guilty conviction has been confirmed, so that, as they say, is that. What a mess. Tend to agree - no amount of greetin' on either side is going to change that
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Post by toughatthetop on Feb 8, 2016 18:54:31 GMT 1
Why on earth were they stupid enough to have the same lawyer that bemuses me
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Post by livimoaner on Feb 10, 2016 13:36:36 GMT 1
Why on earth were they stupid enough to have the same lawyer that bemuses me A good point. Even if they were using legal aid they would have been entitled to one each. That said if Declan was doing the right thing he would not have needed one.......
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 10, 2016 20:58:11 GMT 1
Last sentence makes no sense...only a fool represents himself in court, so as soon as he was accused/charged he needed a lawyer regardless of whether he was innocent or guilty
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