|
|
Post by bunnetdeleving on Jan 6, 2013 15:42:31 GMT 1
'David Taylor hopes league changes can boost Scottish game' Taylor highlighted Frenchman Anthony Andreu, one of Livi's goalscorers against the Jags, to exemplify what he suggested was the rather parochial outlook shown by Scottish footballers. "Last season he was at Stade Nyonnais, the home team at Nyon where Uefa is based," he said. "Now he's here playing for Livingston and scored a great goal today. I don't see the reverse movement. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20926259www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20920482 |
|
Pedro
Administrator 
Posts: 1,172 
|
Post by Pedro on Jan 6, 2013 17:46:41 GMT 1
So one one hand we've got the Scottish representative at UEFA, David Taylor, saying that two leagues slitting into 3 has been tried, and binned, elsewhere in Europe already and on the other we have the top brass of the SFL, David Longmuir, saying that more SFL clubs are coming round to the idea of having two leagues splitting into 3.
Who's coming and who's going? Am none the wiser.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Villager on Jan 6, 2013 18:43:09 GMT 1
Lots of chat in the papers today saying that the 12-12-18 idea is happening. I think splitting the two leagues of 12 into three leagues of 8 isn't a bad idea. There's a chance of four clubs being promoted/relegated which can only be good.
Thinking about Livi, we would be borderline between the middle 8 and the bottom one. There doesn't seem to be much to play for in the bottom section except to avoid relegation and that's a worry.
|
|
|
|
Post by bunnetdeleving on Jan 6, 2013 19:04:35 GMT 1
Must admit, I think both the proposals on offer are more desirable than the current set-up.
|
|
|
|
Post by bunnetdeleving on Jan 7, 2013 9:21:58 GMT 1
Quotes; "Details of the agreement have still to be sealed, but it will also lead to the two league bodies merging into one, which is likely to be called the Scottish Professional Football League.
"We want a structure that is a bit more dynamic than what we have just now and - a redistribution of the wealth. We'd also like more play-offs."
"It looks like being a 12-12-18 set-up. That appears to be the only way we can all agree and move forward. There is no perfect solution but we are trying. It's very important we embark on a clear programme of communication."
"It will also stand the game in good stead if we are all under one umbrella and one body. It means we can do more for the game under one roof. It has so many positives. The SPL are beginning to come round to understanding it's the best way to take the game forward."
|
|
|
|
Post by LiviLion21 on Jan 7, 2013 13:35:14 GMT 1
How does this 12-12-18 set-up work then?
If you're either of the 12 team leagues, you play everyone twice then at that point the 12-12 becomes 8-8-8? Are the points then zero'd for the start of 8-8-8?
Then the top 8 play to win the title? The middle 8 are playing for what?
Is it syaing if you're 9th place of the 12, you go into the middle 8 and if you finish top of the middle 8, you win promotion back to the top 12 for the next season?
I'm confused by it all to be honest.
And what happens with the league of 18? They just play each other twice with the winner going up and a whole host of other teams with nothing to play for for most of the season?
|
|
|
|
Post by bunnetdeleving on Jan 7, 2013 17:24:46 GMT 1
Quote, "It is understood the two division set-up being explored would see the top league stick with 12 teams but split after two rounds of fixtures in which teams had met home and away. The top eight clubs would then meet a further twice home and away, while the bottom four clubs would play against the top four of the new lower division of 12, made up of teams invited from the SFL. These eight clubs would meet twice, home and away, with the bottom four clubs being relegated at the end of the season. The bottom eight clubs in the lower division would also play-off against one another." www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20399047Quote, "Two leagues, an SPL1 and SPL2, would be formed, both consisting of 12 teams respectively. Each team would play each other twice in their respective divisions, creating 22 fixtures. After two rounds, the leagues would then merge and split into three groups of eight. Each team would again play each other twice, leading to a total of 36 games being played across the course of the campaign. The clubs in the top eight at the split would contend for the title and European spots, and would be guaranteed a place in SPL1 in the new season. The middle group would arguably be the most competitive. The teams finishing in the top four positions would play in SPL1 in the new campaign, with the bottom four playing in SPL2. The bottom group would fight it out to avoid relegation to the SFL. It is not clear at this stage how many relegation spots would be opened up." sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/aberdeen/200306-scottish-premier-league-plans-for-league-reconstruction-outlined/ |
|
|
|
Post by bunnetdeleving on Jan 7, 2013 17:58:12 GMT 1
How does this 12-12-18 set-up work then? If you're either of the 12 team leagues, you play everyone twice then at that point the 12-12 becomes 8-8-8? Are the points then zero'd for the start of 8-8-8?... Top 8 to keep points accumulated, middle eight to start from scratch...no one's mentioned the third 8 yet, as far as I can tell. Meeting at Hampden on Tuesday 8.1.2013, expect more details to be released after that. |
|
|
|
Post by chrislove1990 on Jan 7, 2013 18:21:53 GMT 1
Very interesting proposal. Would make the first half of the season much more important. Teams will need to get a good start to maintain a good position in the league after 22 fixtures.
The second half of the season will be exciting for each 8 team section as each team will be playing for something.
Seems a revolutionary league structure, not aware of any set-up like it around the world. Not to say its going to work but certainly makes more fixtures more meaningful which would hopefully boost attendances. Its a bit complex and not exactly straightforward to explain.
|
|
|
|
Post by pacopadres on Jan 7, 2013 20:47:22 GMT 1
A total waste of time. What is proposed does nothing to improve the product on the pitch. Fans want value for money,not the crazy prices charged,in Scotland to watch crap. Also bringing bars into the grounds like down south would help,giving the punters what they want is the answer,which also doesn't include Friday night football.
|
|
Pedro
Administrator
Posts: 1,172
|
Post by Pedro on Jan 7, 2013 22:33:03 GMT 1
The Scottish guy on the board of UEFA, David Taylor, is quoted as saying that Austria, Switzerland and Switzerland all tried a two league split into three league set up several years ago but all gave it up.
It's all a bit gimmicky for me, tbh.
|
|
|
|
Post by bunnetdeleving on Jan 8, 2013 8:26:21 GMT 1
'Scottish clubs meet governing bodies for restructuring talks' Quote, "Scottish clubs will meet with the football governing bodies on Tuesday for talks on restructuring the game. The morning meeting at Hampden Park will involve 15 clubs from both the Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League." www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20941213Quote, "Using the current table as a guide, Hearts, St Mirren, Ross County and Dundee would have their points tally set to zero as they merge with the current First Division top four of Dunfermline, Morton, Partick Thistle and Raith Rovers." www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20932584 |
|
Pedro
Administrator
Posts: 1,172
|
Post by Pedro on Jan 8, 2013 9:03:24 GMT 1
Will this gimmicky league improve standards?
Will prices be standardised and affordable across the leagues?
|
|
|
|
Post by LiviLion21 on Jan 8, 2013 9:46:15 GMT 1
Would it only be the points tally of the middle 8 that are zero'd or would the top 8 be zero'd too? It could make for a whole lot of meaningless games in the run up to the first 22 being played. If the teams in first, second, third etc know that they've done enough to avoid finishing in the bottom 4 places, they'd have nothing to play for until the league splits?
Likewise, take a team like ICT - they've been flying so far. Under the new proposal, that would all stand for nothing as after 22 games, they'd have all their points taken off them and have to start from scratch again for the next 14 games? Puts a lot of pressure on the last 14 games.
If you're in the top 8 and you lose your first 5 or 6 games, it wouldn't really matter as you knwo if you get pumped in them all and finish in 8th pace, you're guaranteed a place in the top 12 the next season?
|
|
|
|
Post by bunnetdeleving on Jan 8, 2013 13:16:21 GMT 1
Quote, "Livingston chairman Gordon McDougall laughed off suggestions that the SPL and SFL could merge in time for the 2013/14 campaign. But he added that the league restructuring could happen in time for the next term "if there is good will" between the governing bodies." www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20941213 |
|
Pedro
Administrator
Posts: 1,172
|
Post by Pedro on Jan 8, 2013 13:17:09 GMT 1
What an utter shambles!
So it's to be called the Scottish Professional Football League and have a Premiership, a Championship and a Knockabout League for the rest, or something?
Farce.
|
|
|
|
Post by bunnetdeleving on Jan 8, 2013 14:00:58 GMT 1
|
|
afro
Youth Player
Posts: 68
|
Post by afro on Jan 8, 2013 18:13:31 GMT 1
It all seems a bit too gimmicky, like Pedro said a few posts up. I can't help but get the feeling that they've thrown these proposals together pretty quickly, without really researching all the different aspects that it entails. If it goes to a vote, then I reckon it'll be rejected emphatically.
It's a no-brainer for me. Get rid of the SPL as an organisation, expand the top flight and introduce a pyramid system.
|
|
|
|
Post by bunnetdeleving on Jan 8, 2013 18:17:30 GMT 1
'Scottish clubs will hold a vote on a possible new league structure before the end of January.' Quote, "Ultimately it will be the clubs that decide but we have seen a willingness to make change happen and a recognition that Scottish football is crying out for a new dawn and we have now got agreement to take to clubs for a single league body. "That is a huge step for the game in Scotland and it shouldn't be underestimated. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20941213 |
|
Pedro
Administrator
Posts: 1,172
|
Post by Pedro on Jan 8, 2013 18:20:02 GMT 1
If it goes to a vote, then I reckon it'll be rejected emphatically.
It's a no-brainer for me. Get rid of the SPL as an organisation, expand the top flight and introduce a pyramid system. All that makes sense to me but according to the quoted reports above and on the radio on the way home it looks as though the mad 12-12-18 / 8-8-8-18 is going to win the day.  |
|
|
|
Post by bunnetdeleving on Jan 8, 2013 19:36:21 GMT 1
|
|
afro
Youth Player
Posts: 68
|
Post by afro on Jan 8, 2013 20:55:55 GMT 1
I can't see 11 SPL clubs and 23 SFL clubs supporting this, thankfully. It's also pretty speculative of Regan to claim that this set-up will benefit everyone, I'd quite like to see the SPL/SFL's evidence to back that up. At least they've acknowledged that change is needed, but there are better and far more beneficial ways to go about it.
|
|
|
|
Post by LiviLion21 on Jan 9, 2013 12:08:32 GMT 1
Surely it doesn't matter what set-up our league structure has - if the prices for the punters are still OTT then it'll be the same outcome.
As far as I'm concerned, addressing ticket prices and the 'matchday experience' for the paying fan would go along way to improving crowds.
I honestly don't think the current structure is too far off. One governing body and create play-offs between SFL1 and SPL and you've already got a huge improvement.
Take SFL2 just now. First place goes straight up, 2nd to 4th have playoffs, 9th place is in relegation play-off and bottom goes down. That keeps things exciting for everyone in that table. If you're 7th or 8th, you're still flirting with relegation but win a couple of games and you're not far off pushing for 4th and a shot at promotion. Take Airdrie last season - they weren't up-to-much, put a run together, snuck into 4th place, beat first division Ayr in the play-off semi before losing the final. Circumstances seen them promoted anyway but the point remains - they went from flirting with the drop to verge of promotion.
It's embarrasing that SFL1 has a play-off place to get relegated but no play-off place to get promoted. As it stands, if you're enar the bottom and put a run together, there's not that much to play for once you're safe in 4th/5th/6th. Get play-offs in there and SFL1 would become even better.
|
|
LLD
New Member
Posts: 23
|
Post by LLD on Jan 9, 2013 20:23:48 GMT 1
I was asked on another forum for a comment on the club's position on reconstruction and feel it may be helpful to post my comments here. There is no definitive club position at this moment in time. That will only be determined once the finalised proposal has been received and the board has had an opportunity to collectively discuss it. As it stands I haven't seen anything above and beyond what has been stated in the media, and am quite happy to share my personal opinion based on that. I think the 12-12-18 plan has some merits but I would say that it has some significant flaws. Positives* The indications are that there will be an improved model for distribution of monies, which could be good news for LFC and other similar sized clubs * The 'middle 8' post split option should be quite exciting and I like the fact that there is the potential for much more movement between the top two divisions. * Slight increase in variety of opposition for clubs in the middle 8, considerably more variety in the third tier. * Relegation from the bottom tier has to be a good thing if it happens * One less governing body, one less chief executive and one less set of staff costs (arguably still one too many though) Negatives* I'm not a huge fan of splits anyway, but the 8-8-8 proposal means that there cannot be any full season champion of the second tier league. * The splits could see a big disparity from the top to bottom of 'top 8' and 'bottom 8' sections, which in turn could result in teams having nothing to play for. * The 'bottom 8' doesn't leave anything positive for the teams involved to play for in their final 14 games * Clubs in the pre-split top 12 will find planning much more difficult, depending on the financial distribution * The logistics of getting all 22 rounds of games completed before the split is due to happen could be problematic * The bottom league of 18 could stagnate. There are clubs towards the bottom of that division who may have no realistic chance of promotion. * I'm not convinced that a meaningful pyramid will emerge below the National League, mainly due to a lack of interested junior clubs Those are the main points I can think of just now. As far as Scottish football as a whole goes, I don't see it as the best possible solution, though it could be argued that it is no worse than the current set-up. Closing the vast financial gap that currently exists between the first and second tiers should be good for competition, if it comes to pass. As an aside, I actually think that there's probably far too much emphasis being put on the numbers in each league - in my humble opinion there are other additional issues which are contributing to the difficulties facing the game at the moment. These need dealt with regardless of the league structure. By this I mean, things like * when we play (erratic kick off times and the summer football / winter break argument) * the amount of football on TV * how much it costs people to see games * how the game is marketed * how football supporters are viewed in society and treated within stadia (outdated alcohol ban / aggressive stewarding / general customer care) * how youth development is administered and funded * the general lack of investment in grassroots football, particularly changing facilities and maintaining pitches * who owns and operates football clubs - we need more fan representation within boardrooms and more done to prevent lunatic or incompetent owners As I said, all very much a personal opinion.  DS |
|
Pedro
Administrator
Posts: 1,172
|
Post by Pedro on Jan 9, 2013 22:30:19 GMT 1
Cheers for that, Dave.
Your 5th potential negative is very interesting indeed.
I wonder what would happen in that instance?
Not that we'll be able to have a 12/12/18 setup anyway, now that Chuckie Green is threatening to move his brand new club out of Scottish football. #goonthendoityagobsh*te
|
|
