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Oh No!
Oct 14, 2016 19:39:48 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by colcal on Oct 14, 2016 19:39:48 GMT 1
Not again! Please? If Alan Lithgow was sent off in a league game (against East Fife), it must be a straightforward situation. He's either ineligible for the Irn Bru Cup, another SPFL competition, or he's not. If he was, it's a shocking and embarrassing oversight by the club's administrators that will lead to expulsion from that cup (and perhaps a fine that we cannot afford to pay) or an embarrassing charge by the SPFL that has not basis.
Although there's a hearing about it on Monday, I think we already know the outcome.
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Oh No!
Oct 14, 2016 20:50:15 GMT 1
Post by livijimbo on Oct 14, 2016 20:50:15 GMT 1
Same old, same old
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Post by cterry103 on Oct 14, 2016 21:12:12 GMT 1
Surely the coaching staff must have been aware of how long his suspension was?
Either way an absolutely shocking mistake.
I don't see any outcome other than being kicked out the cup.
Would be interested to know the rules under the new format though. As how would it work for a crusaders player with a suspension from the Irish FA? Would be unfair if those bans don't apply to the cup but Lithgow's does.
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Oh No!
Oct 14, 2016 22:00:43 GMT 1
Post by jonsnow on Oct 14, 2016 22:00:43 GMT 1
It was a two match suspension for violent conduct but Livi fc thought it was just for league games (Peterhead & Albion Rovers), and we were ok to play him in the Irn Bru cup. That doesn't seem to be the case though, both the league cup and challenge cup come under the SPFL and his suspension was for the next two games played (Peterhead & Crusaders).
That's a good point cterry, we should check to see if Crusaders had any players playing that were suspended in their league, long shot but it would give us a valid argument for being allowed to play Lithgow if they were being allowed to play players under suspension in the Northern Irish league. Wonder if they even considered that in their rules when opening this cup up to teams from other countries.
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Pedro
Administrator 
Posts: 1,172 
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Oh No!
Oct 14, 2016 22:06:11 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Pedro on Oct 14, 2016 22:06:11 GMT 1
The club's a shambles!
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Oh No!
Oct 15, 2016 0:55:46 GMT 1
Post by orco on Oct 15, 2016 0:55:46 GMT 1
Nae change there then. Always has been.
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Post by orco on Oct 15, 2016 1:07:35 GMT 1
It was a two match suspension for violent conduct but Livi fc thought it was just for league games (Peterhead & Albion Rovers), and we were ok to play him in the Irn Bru cup. That doesn't seem to be the case though, both the league cup and challenge cup come under the SPFL and his suspension was for the next two games played (Peterhead & Crusaders). That's a good point cterry, we should check to see if Crusaders had any players playing that were suspended in their league, long shot but it would give us a valid argument for being allowed to play Lithgow if they were being allowed to play players under suspension in the Northern Irish league. Wonder if they even considered that in their rules when opening this cup up to teams from other countries. In other competitions which cross national boundaries (Champions/Europa League) domestic sanctions do not apply. The disciplinary list says Lithgow misses 2 first team games. Now if a Celtic player had that same ban - two first team games - and played a European tie in between two premier league games, that player could play in the middle game. The fact that we have Welsh and Northern Ireland teams in this competition moves the goal posts for the reasons that cterry gives. It would be different if it was all Scottish teams. There is a case there but it being Livi the SFA will likely ignore the anomaly. |
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Oh No!
Oct 15, 2016 9:07:53 GMT 1
Post by theflashingblade on Oct 15, 2016 9:07:53 GMT 1
I wonder what underling Martindale will report to Rankine over this latest fiasco? #jotters
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Oh No!
Oct 15, 2016 9:28:08 GMT 1
Post by livijimbo on Oct 15, 2016 9:28:08 GMT 1
Dundee Unt got a £30k fine last year for 2 ineligible players
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Post by cterry103 on Oct 15, 2016 10:08:28 GMT 1
It was a two match suspension for violent conduct but Livi fc thought it was just for league games (Peterhead & Albion Rovers), and we were ok to play him in the Irn Bru cup. That doesn't seem to be the case though, both the league cup and challenge cup come under the SPFL and his suspension was for the next two games played (Peterhead & Crusaders). That's a good point cterry, we should check to see if Crusaders had any players playing that were suspended in their league, long shot but it would give us a valid argument for being allowed to play Lithgow if they were being allowed to play players under suspension in the Northern Irish league. Wonder if they even considered that in their rules when opening this cup up to teams from other countries. In other competitions which cross national boundaries (Champions/Europa League) domestic sanctions do not apply. The disciplinary list says Lithgow misses 2 first team games. Now if a Celtic player had that same ban - two first team games - and played a European tie in between two premier league games, that player could play in the middle game. The fact that we have Welsh and Northern Ireland teams in this competition moves the goal posts for the reasons that cterry gives. It would be different if it was all Scottish teams. There is a case there but it being Livi the SFA will likely ignore the anomaly. A really good point. It all depends if the rules have been altered after incorporating the Welsh and NI teams. The fact the club have charged would suggest they haven't. I'd say the club can make a pretty strong argument that if the competition involves clubs from a different country then surely domestic bans should not apply. Hoping for a small fine but no doubt we will get booted out the cup |
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afro
Youth Player
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Oh No!
Oct 15, 2016 11:49:45 GMT 1
Post by afro on Oct 15, 2016 11:49:45 GMT 1
It's a good point about the cross-border aspect of the competition but I'm afraid that wouldn't give Livi a leg to lean on in this instance. I'm assuming international competitions (Champions League, Europa League, etc.) are classed as those governed by UEFA, whereas this Challenge Cup is governed by the SPFL, with additional teams invited. It's still a Scottish competition, sadly in this instance, and I don't think that's changed given we've been charged. It's also plainly written on the weekly suspension list that Lithgow was still to serve a ban for the next first team game, as opposed to a league match.
I'd also be curious to see who's responsibility it is (was?) for this. It's a horrendous oversight, no doubt, and it does little to convince supporters that the current operating model the club are employing is actually effective.
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Oh No!
Oct 15, 2016 13:39:26 GMT 1
Post by Auldnick on Oct 15, 2016 13:39:26 GMT 1
Would the SPFL not need to get UEFA clearance to invite clubs from other countries into the competition? If so and they didn't then the match was effectively a friendly and TNS should get thrown out giving us a bye into the semi finals www  |
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Oh No!
Oct 15, 2016 14:16:22 GMT 1
Post by Benedict Le Gauche on Oct 15, 2016 14:16:22 GMT 1
Not to worry everyone about this silly nonsense because the shop has a new scarf. Hurrah!  |
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Oh No!
Oct 17, 2016 17:49:45 GMT 1
Post by italion on Oct 17, 2016 17:49:45 GMT 1
In conclusion:-
1. Did the SPFL apply to UEFA to hold a cross border competition? 2. If they did apply and got permission, what were the rules? Please publish them! 3. If a Welsh or Irish player had been sent off in a game under their respective league rules would "they" have been ineligible for this game? 4. If a Welsh or Irish player had been sent off or even yellow carded, in this competition would it have been recognised by their respective leagues? etc. etc. There are too many imponderables relating to this case that if Livingston are punished then they will have a good case for an appeal.
but............................
Any decent, well run club would have checked with the SFA before playing Lithgow.
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Post by cterry103 on Oct 18, 2016 12:33:30 GMT 1
When is the hearing?
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Oh No!
Oct 18, 2016 14:07:09 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by italion on Oct 18, 2016 14:07:09 GMT 1
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Post by cterry103 on Oct 18, 2016 14:33:42 GMT 1
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Oh No!
Oct 18, 2016 14:50:21 GMT 1
Post by LiviLion21 on Oct 18, 2016 14:50:21 GMT 1
Sure the original STV article which "broke" the news said the hearing was on 24th October - next Monday.
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Oh No!
Oct 18, 2016 20:29:43 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by italion on Oct 18, 2016 20:29:43 GMT 1
Sure the original STV article which "broke" the news said the hearing was on 24th October - next Monday. You are correct. Monday 24th October. |
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Oh No!
Oct 19, 2016 18:59:19 GMT 1
Post by jonsnow on Oct 19, 2016 18:59:19 GMT 1
I was a bit annoyed when the news broke about this but it is done and nothing we can do bout it.
It was quite exciting seeing us score that late goal and I enjoyed us being drawn against Crusaders and The New Saints, it brought something a bit different and interesting to this cup which usually doesn't hold any interest till the semi final stage. The league is the most important thing for us this season though, so if all we get is chucked out of the Challenge cup it wont be a disaster.
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