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Post by colcal on Feb 28, 2016 20:06:01 GMT 1
Surely we have the opportunity to introduce young Matthew Knox in games to give him some time on the pitch. He's very young of course but we've seen the big teams in Engkand play some youngsters - Man Utd and Arsenal both played players that are 17 or 18 year old in their game today. If they can do it, and they feel that young Knox has a very promising future, why not give him minutes on the pitch?
He's an unknown to us, and to the opposition. He's scored in lots of games on trial and in bounce games with the first team. He's got something different to offer.
As the cliche goes, if he's good enough he's old enough.
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Post by jonsnow on Feb 28, 2016 20:38:41 GMT 1
Don't think he's physically ready, didn't look like he should've been getting game time when he was being put on either.
Besides Currie is getting game time, his development is at the stage to be coming through, Knox's isn't.
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Post by colcal on Feb 28, 2016 21:42:40 GMT 1
It's about opinions of course but I disagree. If he can play, and score, against Junior sides like Bo'ness then I don't imagine it's such a leap to play 20 minutes against Alloa, Morton or Dumbarton.
Pace and movement are as important as physical attributes, especially later in games.
Being lightweight is a red herring if you're good on the ball.
I say give him some time and see what he does. What's to lose? The young lad Rashford at Man Utd shows that age and experience are over-rated.
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Pedro
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Post by Pedro on Feb 28, 2016 22:14:55 GMT 1
if he's good enough he's old enough. Maybe he's not 'good enough', yet? |
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Post by jonsnow on Feb 28, 2016 23:09:42 GMT 1
It's about opinions of course but I disagree. If he can play, and score, against Junior sides like Bo'ness then I don't imagine it's such a leap to play 20 minutes against Alloa, Morton or Dumbarton. Pace and movement are as important as physical attributes, especially later in games. Being lightweight is a red herring if you're good on the ball. I say give him some time and see what he does. What's to lose? The young lad Rashford at Man Utd shows that age and experience are over-rated. Age is a big issue when you're talking 18 months, just turning 16 and being 17 and a half to 18 is huge in development, Knox just isn't ready. Coming up against players in the Championship and ones in a bounce game against juniors is completely different too. Against Morton he looked out of his depth when he came on, he was easily pushed off the ball, supposing he gets injured too, you have to protect young players and bring them on gradually, when they're ready. Most skilful ball player we've had coming from the youth team was Scougall, he didn't come through when he was 16 though. |
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Post by Auldnick on Feb 29, 2016 0:10:24 GMT 1
Being skilful on the ball is a red herring if you get clobbered by a 6'+ battering ram who then lands on you for good measure.
I'm all for giving the young players a chance but Knox is just a boy.
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Post by livipunk on Feb 29, 2016 19:45:06 GMT 1
I agree with the saying 'If he's good enough, he's old enough',but judging from the times I've seen him he's clearly still developing. Ideally it would be good to give him a chance if we were a few goals ahead and looking safe, but that doesn't happen often at Livi.
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Post by toughatthetop on Mar 1, 2016 20:40:45 GMT 1
All a lot of bull he was mark burchills love child and simply isn't good enough
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Post by toughatthetop on Mar 1, 2016 20:54:07 GMT 1
It's about opinions of course but I disagree. If he can play, and score, against Junior sides like Bo'ness then I don't imagine it's such a leap to play 20 minutes against Alloa, Morton or Dumbarton. Pace and movement are as important as physical attributes, especially later in games. Being lightweight is a red herring if you're good on the ball. I say give him some time and see what he does. What's to lose? The young lad Rashford at Man Utd shows that age and experience are over-rated. sheerin scored a bag full in super league enough said |
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Post by toughatthetop on Mar 1, 2016 21:00:20 GMT 1
Being skilful on the ball is a red herring if you get clobbered by a 6'+ battering ram who then lands on you for good measure. I'm all for giving the young players a chance but Knox is just a boy. knox head is that far up his Arsenal he can see his teeth I know for a fact he brags about all the clubs he's been at fact is no one wants him , john mcglyn was first to give him a shout at reserve level then burchill took it from there he and his dad didn't want him to play 17s level as it was above him a fool to themselves us not having a 20s team doesn't help matters |
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Post by lionkid on Mar 3, 2016 16:33:30 GMT 1
Being skilful on the ball is a red herring if you get clobbered by a 6'+ battering ram who then lands on you for good measure. I'm all for giving the young players a chance but Knox is just a boy. knox head is that far up his Arsenal he can see his teeth I know for a fact he brags about all the clubs he's been at fact is no one wants him , john mcglyn was first to give him a shout at reserve level then burchill took it from there he and his dad didn't want him to play 17s level as it was above him a fool to themselves us not having a 20s team doesn't help matters Most of that I couldn't comment on but the part about 17s is utter gash - fact! |
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Post by toughatthetop on Mar 3, 2016 17:39:17 GMT 1
knox head is that far up his Arsenal he can see his teeth I know for a fact he brags about all the clubs he's been at fact is no one wants him , john mcglyn was first to give him a shout at reserve level then burchill took it from there he and his dad didn't want him to play 17s level as it was above him a fool to themselves us not having a 20s team doesn't help matters Most of that I couldn't comment on but the part about 17s is utter gash - fact! when was the last time he played 17s? Also if we go that far into things I heard he was bragging at the Scotland camp to the other lads about where he's going fact is no one wants him there's better out there his agent is mark burchills now ain't that telling u something are you him btw |
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Post by colcal on Mar 3, 2016 23:57:46 GMT 1
Whatever his bragging rights or otherwise, the fact is that we refused to sell him in the January window. If he'd moved on to Man Utd or Leicester or Everton, they'd have helped to develop him in their development squads then reserves and maybe loaned him to a lower league side. He'd have been playing matches, maturing, learning and improving.
We held onto him and he's not even in the squad for match days. What good is that doing for him? He's got no access to reserve games. Young players need to play competitive games with older players to improve. Knox isn't playing at all.
It just seems to me that we had the chance to sell him, play him or develop him. We're doing none of these.
Why?! How are we helping him to develop?
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Post by lionkid on Mar 4, 2016 15:01:31 GMT 1
Most of that I couldn't comment on but the part about 17s is utter gash - fact! when was the last time he played 17s? Also if we go that far into things I heard he was bragging at the Scotland camp to the other lads about where he's going fact is no one wants him there's better out there his agent is mark burchills now ain't that telling u something are you him btw Well you said his old man and him didn't want him to play for the 17s. As it goes, I agree with a lot of what you say on the subject. Fact is, last season he barely featured at u17 as he wasn't deemed good enough for what as I understand was deemed to be a very promising squad at the start of the season. Unfortunately, a good few of the better 17s were drafted into the 20s. Great experience yes and they did very well initially I think but from what I hear it effectively led to a lack of coaching and both the 17s and 20s fell by the wayside as the season progressed. Huge mistake dropping the 20s I would say; that's where 16 and 17 year olds should be getting the opportunity to play with the older guys who are on the 1st team fringe or coming back from injury and then those who are good enough get the odd chance on the bench and run out when appropriate. The lad Knox doesn't seem to be doing himself any favours at all. If any of these clubs that took him on trial saw potential they would've snapped him up. Scoring a goal in a bounce game doesn't make you the next big thing, EPL academy coaches will be looking at a lot more than that. Maybe they thought his attitude was shit, maybe just that he wasn't as good as his agent was touting him to be. Who knows |
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Post by jonsnow on Mar 4, 2016 16:18:55 GMT 1
So the problem is not having a team in the Development league, or an U19/20 team, yeah i'd agree with that, the solution isn't just to chuck a promising 16 yo into the first team though, that's too big a step for them and doesn't help them or the first team. Imo putting him into the first team was just to try and get him sold, it wasn't done for his development, or because he was good enough to be getting played. It made good headlines and got the desired attention from other clubs wanting him on trial.
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Post by lionkid on Mar 4, 2016 17:04:54 GMT 1
So the problem is not having a team in the Development league, or an U19/20 team, yeah i'd agree with that, the solution isn't just to chuck a promising 16 yo into the first team though, that's too big a step for them and doesn't help them or the first team. Imo putting him into the first team was just to try and get him sold, it wasn't done for his development, or because he was good enough to be getting played. It made good headlines and got the desired attention from other clubs wanting him on trial. 100% agree with you there. The vast majority of those clubs he went to wont even have seen him play...how could they!! |
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Post by jonsnow on Mar 24, 2016 20:39:58 GMT 1
On trial at Murray Park now, bit of a come down from Man U, Everton, Chelsea, Liverpool,Spurs, Notts Forest.
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Post by colcal on Mar 25, 2016 0:54:45 GMT 1
On trial at Murray Park now, bit of a come down from Man U, Everton, Chelsea, Liverpool,Spurs, Notts Forest. It's a bit of a step up from sitting in the bench at a side who're sitting second bottom of the Championship though. One thing seems certain. He won't be at Livingston next season. I'm still struggling to reconcile the fact that all of these big clubs appear to fancy him and yet we don't give him the 'shop window' that we always claim we offer players. Is he really behind Currie or Sheerin in the pecking order? Do they deserve a chance ahead of Knox? Until we play him for more than 5 minutes, we'll never know. What's the worst that can happen? |
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Post by toughatthetop on Mar 25, 2016 9:03:41 GMT 1
The subject is now at its boring stage we wouldn't accept an offer from Notts Forrest but now he's on trial at rangers ?is he running out of offers or none at all get his head out of cloud nine and put him back playing with the 17s where he belongs
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sjw21
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Post by sjw21 on Mar 25, 2016 12:39:52 GMT 1
I get what people are saying about give the young lad a chance to see what he can do but at this moment in time we are in a relegation dog fight. Putting him in at this stage with fans turning quickly on players making mistakes wont help the lads development. If we were mid table away from relegation I would be all for it but until then he should either be back with the u17s or out on loan in the juniors to toughen him up.
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Post by toughatthetop on Mar 25, 2016 15:59:42 GMT 1
I get what people are saying about give the young lad a chance to see what he can do but at this moment in time we are in a relegation dog fight. Putting him in at this stage with fans turning quickly on players making mistakes wont help the lads development. If we were mid table away from relegation I would be all for it but until then he should either be back with the u17s or out on loan in the juniors to toughen him up. i totally agree with yourself but I know Knox is nowhere near the player we think he is all that's happening is he's getting knock back after knock back and it's actually showing this to other clubs ,what happened to hearts wanting him as well? The lad ain't match fit which bemuses me why we would consider him going on trial with other clubs he ain't going to be better than what they have so get him in to the 17s and dictate to him not the otherway about |
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Post by jonsnow on Mar 25, 2016 17:19:14 GMT 1
On trial at Murray Park now, bit of a come down from Man U, Everton, Chelsea, Liverpool,Spurs, Notts Forest. It's a bit of a step up from sitting in the bench at a side who're sitting second bottom of the Championship though. One thing seems certain. He won't be at Livingston next season. I'm still struggling to reconcile the fact that all of these big clubs appear to fancy him and yet we don't give him the 'shop window' that we always claim we offer players. Is he really behind Currie or Sheerin in the pecking order? Do they deserve a chance ahead of Knox? Until we play him for more than 5 minutes, we'll never know. What's the worst that can happen? Yes. Why shouldn't Currie be ahead of him, Currie has come through and is at an age to be getting a chance in the first team, Knox hasn't and is not ready. The only reason he's even being talked about is all the hype going around saying he's the best prospect around just now, where on earth are they getting this stuff? |
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Post by jonsnow on Mar 25, 2016 17:23:31 GMT 1
I get what people are saying about give the young lad a chance to see what he can do but at this moment in time we are in a relegation dog fight. Putting him in at this stage with fans turning quickly on players making mistakes wont help the lads development. If we were mid table away from relegation I would be all for it but until then he should either be back with the u17s or out on loan in the juniors to toughen him up. Yeah it wouldn't do his confidence much good being heckled by the fans. He should be getting proper development anyway, not just thrown into the first team so papers can hype him up as some great prospect playing first team football at 16. |
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Post by Auldnick on Mar 25, 2016 18:54:14 GMT 1
But by the same token getting 5 minutes here or there in matches isn't helping develop him either.
He needs to knuckle down, train hard, prove himself at a wee club like us & then EARN a move to a bigger club.
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Post by toughatthetop on Mar 25, 2016 20:38:27 GMT 1
He needs to earn his stripes but as I've said before his heads up where the sun don't shine
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