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Post by livilad2001 on Dec 16, 2015 10:29:06 GMT 1
very upsetting to see that we get beat off wee teams like alloa yet we can get a good result and play great when we play rangers in my opinion if we play like we played against rangers we would get the results
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Post by LiviLion21 on Dec 17, 2015 9:38:34 GMT 1
Poor performance on the field and just as poor a performance from the fans in the stand too.
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Post by edinlivi on Dec 17, 2015 18:51:39 GMT 1
Poor performance on the field and just as poor a performance from the fans in the stand too. I'm curious.. poor from the fans in what way? Voicing their discontent at what was a truly abysmal performance? Losing at home to a team that had just previously been humped off a pretty poor Dumbarton team is absolutely unacceptable, so I see no reason for the fans not to have a moan about it. I disagree with what seems to be the general consensus with a lot of Livi fans that getting on the players back during/after a poor performance is a heinous crime.. |
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Post by Auldnick on Dec 17, 2015 21:26:37 GMT 1
I don't think getting on their backs during a game is helpful, I have no problem with expressing disappointment after the game is over though.
That said, it is a somewhat symbiotic relationship and it is difficult to know who ought to initiate encouragement. Sometimes fans react to the way the team is playing, when the team gives the fans something to cheer about the fans respond and this encourages the team to do even more in a positive cyclic mutual stimulation...but sometimes it's the fans positive encouragement that initiates this CMS. Likewise when something negative occurs but the fans respond with a positive reaction to encourage the team to greater efforts and they at least try to do better.
At the moment the fans are not doing the latter, at least they didn't on Saturday, instead they berated the team for being crap during the game, this did not do anything to produce CMS, instead everyone was dragged down further.
In defence of the fans, the team didn't appear to be giving everything and when that happens they justifiably refuse to give everything themselves but to then berate the team only results in negative cyclic mutual ambivalence....resulting in a poor performance on and off the pitch.
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Post by edinlivi on Dec 17, 2015 22:30:42 GMT 1
I don't think getting on their backs during a game is helpful, I have no problem with expressing disappointment after the game is over though. That said, it is a somewhat symbiotic relationship and it is difficult to know who ought to initiate encouragement. Sometimes fans react to the way the team is playing, when the team gives the fans something to cheer about the fans respond and this encourages the team to do even more in a positive cyclic mutual stimulation...but sometimes it's the fans positive encouragement that initiates this CMS. Likewise when something negative occurs but the fans respond with a positive reaction to encourage the team to greater efforts and they at least try to do better. At the moment the fans are not doing the latter, at least they didn't on Saturday, instead they berated the team for being crap during the game, this did not do anything to produce CMS, instead everyone was dragged down further. In defence of the fans, the team didn't appear to be giving everything and when that happens they justifiably refuse to give everything themselves but to then berate the team only results in negative cyclic mutual ambivalence....resulting in a poor performance on and off the pitch. Auldnick, with all due respect this is a football forum, not a life philosophy forum.. I think you're overcomplicating the nature of a football fan. As you said, the team on Saturday showed absolutely no signs of giving everything and therefore deserved to be berated. I think you'd be hard pushed to find a set of football fans that would be willing to show encouragement to a team that looks lethargic and unwilling to assert all of their effort for the cause. Why should I bother to give my encouragement when the team doesn't bother on the pitch? |
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Post by Auldnick on Dec 18, 2015 1:35:11 GMT 1
Nothing to do with philosophy, its about encouragement. When they play well it encourages us to cheer them on but it works the other way too...when we cheer them on it encourages them to play well.
The converse is also true, if they play without any effort then we won't show any effort but the problem is that if we don't show any effort then maybe they will be less likely to make the effort.
We have all seen games where a team falls behind & haven't played well but the fans get behind the team & encourage them, the team rallies & grabs a point or better...on Saturday we as fans didn't even try to encourage them instead we berated them...we all got what we deserved.
Like I said, I have no problem with fans showing there displeasure when the game is over but we should try to encourage them to be better while the game is on.
And I'll say this too, whether we like them or loathe them, in my experience (admittedly limited) Celtic fans rarely turn on their team during a match.
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Post by orco on Dec 18, 2015 1:47:32 GMT 1
I do not like fans giving players grief during games even if they are poor. It is counterproductive. In saying that I have watched Livi for 20 years and I have to say that our fans are not guilty of doing this very often. I have been at many away games where the home team got pelters from their fans.
For it to have happened last Saturday things had to be quite bad. The expectation going into that game was high. We had watched two gutsy performances against Hibs and Rangers and expected a win against the bottom team in the league. The players let the fans down. I didn't take part in the abuse but I was very annoyed at the lack of effort shown especially from the players along the back.
They have the opportunity to redeem themselves this week. I'd like a win but will be satisfied as long as I go away thinking they did their best. That's all I ever expect from Livi.
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Post by misdemeanor on Dec 18, 2015 13:17:23 GMT 1
Poor performance on the field and just as poor a performance from the fans in the stand too. What a bizarre comment. Lets all sing "jingle bells jingle bells what a fabulous team we have on the pitch and the football played is oh so much fun and never mind the Alloa game today there a great side and we were lucky only to get by the one" with the chorus of "Pass it back Pass it back, Pass it back pass it back" That is the issue for years we have been going wrong in the stands we should be saying, "jolly good game chaps, bloody well done" and the club should be a pioneer for under 10 year olds to come and watch this sort of dire performance so they too can be encouraged in later years. In your defence I am a guilty fan as I decided that at Half time, first time in 20 years, that sticking pins in my eyes, followed by licking the interior of my oven was indeed a better option than the second half so myself and 5 others left. May I sum up the performance, its a bit like sitting in a queue at a BP petrol station when you're faced with the fact that cannot remember what side you`re petrol cap is at, however the "extra long hose" sign comes in handy, its met with disappointment though when you cannot use the entire facilities of what is on offer as you realise you have guessed right. |
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Post by edinlivi on Dec 18, 2015 14:08:29 GMT 1
Nothing to do with philosophy, its about encouragement. When they play well it encourages us to cheer them on but it works the other way too...when we cheer them on it encourages them to play well. The converse is also true, if they play without any effort then we won't show any effort but the problem is that if we don't show any effort then maybe they will be less likely to make the effort. We have all seen games where a team falls behind & haven't played well but the fans get behind the team & encourage them, the team rallies & grabs a point or better...on Saturday we as fans didn't even try to encourage them instead we berated them...we all got what we deserved. Like I said, I have no problem with fans showing there displeasure when the game is over but we should try to encourage them to be better while the game is on. And I'll say this too, whether we like them or loathe them, in my experience (admittedly limited) Celtic fans rarely turn on their team during a match. If I was performing poorly at work and was trying my utmost to improve my performance, I would expect a little encouragement from my manager..
Conversely, if I was performing poorly at work and putting in no effort to improve that performance I would expect to be berated..
It wasn't necessarily the performance that was shocking on Saturday, it was the apparent lack of effort from some of the players in the team. I see no reason why I should encourage a team, that does nothing to incite any belief that they are willing to put the work in.
Anyways, onwards and upwards, I'm sure this week shall be much better..........
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Post by jonsnow on Dec 18, 2015 15:19:13 GMT 1
I agree it is a symbiotic relationship between players and fans, and one feeds off the other, however the players let the fans down and put in such an abject performance it demoralised the fans.
Sometimes all it takes is for a player to put in a meaty challenge for the fans to get behind them, just something that will get everyone sitting up in their seats, but there was nothing at all encouraging our fans to get behind the players against Alloa.
If fans see players making an effort they will back them to the hilt, however when fans are paying money to watch such an insipid performance and players who get paid to play aren't trying a leg then they deserve to be told that they've let everyone down. They've been clapped off the pitch by our fans many a time after losing a game, so it showed how much our fans were angered by the players lack of effort for them to be berated and booed off the pitch.
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Post by bawbag on Dec 18, 2015 22:51:35 GMT 1
Performances like last Saturday have sucked the life out of a very patient home support I feel ,crowds are disappearing down to the lack of home wins ...surely the buck stops with the manager and players not the fans. Haven't seen Livi win this season so far and were at Christmas ...if I under performed at my work i would be shown the door it's about time these player woke up and started earning their money
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Post by Auldnick on Dec 19, 2015 1:02:28 GMT 1
Poor performance on the field and just as poor a performance from the fans in the stand too. What a bizarre comment. Lets all sing "jingle bells jingle bells what a fabulous team we have on the pitch and the football played is oh so much fun and never mind the Alloa game today there a great side and we were lucky only to get by the one" with the chorus of "Pass it back Pass it back, Pass it back pass it back" That is the issue for years we have been going wrong in the stands we should be saying, "jolly good game chaps, bloody well done" and the club should be a pioneer for under 10 year olds to come and watch this sort of dire performance so they too can be encouraged in later years. In your defence I am a guilty fan as I decided that at Half time, first time in 20 years, that sticking pins in my eyes, followed by licking the interior of my oven was indeed a better option than the second half so myself and 5 others left. May I sum up the performance, its a bit like sitting in a queue at a BP petrol station when you're faced with the fact that cannot remember what side you`re petrol cap is at, however the "extra long hose" sign comes in handy, its met with disappointment though when you cannot use the entire facilities of what is on offer as you realise you have guessed right. I would have to say your final paragraph is far more bizarre than LL21's comment For the purpose of clarification, it is possible to express disappointment/anger/annoyance at the team's collective failings by encouraging positively eg "Come on Livi, you are better than this lot, let's see you prove it." This would more commonly be vocalised as "Get intae them!" Rather than "This is garbage, you are all a bunch of diddies!" or worse by singling out an individual. This would be more commonly vocalised as "Come on Livi/(insert players name of choice here) this is/you are (insert derogatory expletives here)" Last Saturday was the worst performance I can remember seeing given the poor quality of opposition and there really is no excuse for the entire team to perform so poorly, the lack of effort suggests that they believed they only had to step on to the pitch to win but as we all know, you have to work hard to achieve things and even then success is not guaranteed. So hopefully that lesson has been learned and they put in the effort this Saturday. |
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