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Post by toplion on Oct 9, 2015 12:15:26 GMT 1
Saw on Livi Live that Burchill thinks it was a great performance last week. I am fed up hearing the sob stories the fact of the matter is after 9 games we are bottom of the league with 4pts.
Lets hope he has the team in all weekend working hard for St Mirren game, as this is becoming a massive game for Livi.
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Post by theflashingblade on Oct 9, 2015 21:29:35 GMT 1
Rumour has it the squad is on a long weekend off. Not bad!
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Burchill?
Oct 9, 2015 21:40:41 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by toplion on Oct 9, 2015 21:40:41 GMT 1
Rumour has it the squad is on a long weekend off. Not bad! What seriously? Great reward for being bottom of the league. |
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Post by Mr Angry on Oct 9, 2015 22:16:23 GMT 1
A long weekend? Does anyone down there actually care that we're bottom of the league?
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Burchill?
Oct 9, 2015 23:25:00 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by toughatthetop on Oct 9, 2015 23:25:00 GMT 1
Rumour is he's watching a few pub teams of his mates to add to the squad
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Post by Auldnick on Oct 11, 2015 0:20:53 GMT 1
Its not unusual with an international break for clubs to have some "down time" as the rest can be as valuable as anything else.
We are bottom after 9 games, we are not out of touch with the teams above us, we have been close enough in most games to suggest we will beat some of the teams at our end of the table. We were bottom with 9 games left last season & pulled it round.
But hey, we're Livi fans. we want our team to survive financially & live within their means. As long as they survive it matters not one jot which division they are in... but they BETTER be challenging for the title & all the cups cos if their no' we'll no' be back!
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Post by Mr Angry on Oct 11, 2015 12:22:39 GMT 1
We could have. We should have. Fact is we haven't. That's why we're bottom. No-one down there deserves extra time off as a 'reward'.
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Post by jonsnow on Oct 11, 2015 19:06:45 GMT 1
Saw on Livi Live that Burchill thinks it was a great performance last week. I am fed up hearing the sob stories the fact of the matter is after 9 games we are bottom of the league with 4pts. Lets hope he has the team in all weekend working hard for St Mirren game, as this is becoming a massive game for Livi. I'm sure we'd all moan about playing rubbish football if we were sitting comfortably mid table and would prefer to see good performances, but right now results are more important than playing well. Dumbarton were the happier team coming away with 3 pts after playing poorly. They were cynical in their fouls making sure we didn't break up the pitch and made it a stop start scrappy game but they got the 3 points. |
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Post by toplion on Oct 12, 2015 18:58:05 GMT 1
Its not unusual with an international break for clubs to have some "down time" as the rest can be as valuable as anything else. We are bottom after 9 games, we are not out of touch with the teams above us, we have been close enough in most games to suggest we will beat some of the teams at our end of the table. We were bottom with 9 games left last season & pulled it round. But hey, we're Livi fans. we want our team to survive financially & live within their means. As long as they survive it matters not one jot which division they are in... but they BETTER be challenging for the title & all the cups cos if their no' we'll no' be back! Bottom line no matter how you look at it is after 9 games we're bottom of the league with 4pts & if that trend continues in the next 9 games we will be relegated eventually If if the players did have all weekend off then shame on Burchill, as a missed opportunity to work hard with the whole team ahead of St Mirren, who beat Dunfermline comfortably and coming into the game full of confidence. |
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Post by Auldnick on Oct 12, 2015 23:47:29 GMT 1
I guess that's why we are all successful football coaches...cause we know better don't we.
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Post by toplion on Oct 13, 2015 7:13:53 GMT 1
I guess that's why we are all successful football coaches...cause we know better don't we. What are you on about? |
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Post by jonsnow on Oct 13, 2015 12:37:49 GMT 1
Its not unusual with an international break for clubs to have some "down time" as the rest can be as valuable as anything else. We are bottom after 9 games, we are not out of touch with the teams above us, we have been close enough in most games to suggest we will beat some of the teams at our end of the table. We were bottom with 9 games left last season & pulled it round. But hey, we're Livi fans. we want our team to survive financially & live within their means. As long as they survive it matters not one jot which division they are in... but they BETTER be challenging for the title & all the cups cos if their no' we'll no' be back! Bottom line no matter how you look at it is after 9 games we're bottom of the league with 4pts & if that trend continues in the next 9 games we will be relegated eventually If if the players did have all weekend off then shame on Burchill, as a missed opportunity to work hard with the whole team ahead of St Mirren, who beat Dunfermline comfortably and coming into the game full of confidence. Yes but there has been positives in our most recent performances to suggest it wont continue over the next 9 games, if we were sitting bottom and playing badly then I'd agree with you but that hasn't been the case. Our next four games are against teams we can get points from so lets wait and see how they go before getting in a panic. |
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Post by bobafett on Oct 13, 2015 16:51:51 GMT 1
You can take as many positives from games as you like, but without getting points on the board we are doomed
The avoidable goals we lose week in week out from suicidal back passes and failing to defend set pieces should be getting worked on, make the guys train more until we cut out the mistakes and start winning regularly again
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Post by monkeysocks on Oct 13, 2015 17:34:55 GMT 1
You can take as many positives from games as you like, but without getting points on the board we are doomed The avoidable goals we lose week in week out from suicidal back passes and failing to defend set pieces should be getting worked on, make the guys train more until we cut out the mistakes and start winning regularly again Unfortunately I don't think we have the quality of player whom you could say was reliable for 90odd percent of the time and not prone to make mistakes. Defending starts before the last line and we certainly not equipped in midfield to support the back 4. You can run through as many drills and set pieces as you like but if the basic skill set for this level is below standard then you are always going to be in trouble.playing players out of position and changing a winning team does not help much either. |
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Post by Mr Angry on Oct 13, 2015 19:43:19 GMT 1
So you're saying that the players are getting extra days off because they're just not good enough?
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Post by Auldnick on Oct 13, 2015 23:15:56 GMT 1
I guess that's why we are all successful football coaches...cause we know better don't we. What are you on about? Fairly obvious really...criticism is easy, being a successful manager isn't, if it was we'd all be doing it. Burchill is a young manager who got pelters last season until he & the team turned it around. He is getting pelters again this season for a bad start (no one is claiming its a good start) but given the circumstances & the way games have developed its not all been his fault, but the armchair managers are calling for his head & second guessing every decision. Football people should be taken to the work places of the fans & be given the opportunity to assess the performance of the fans in their jobs. I can just see it "Look at the way that guy is stacking those shelves, what an idiot...sacked in the morning, you're getting sacked in the morning!" "What about that banker over there, he's useless, he'll never give a loan, he'll never give a loan!" "Come on Postie, get on with it, get those letters in those letter boxes or that won't be the only sack you'll get!" |
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Burchill?
Oct 14, 2015 6:29:56 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by toughatthetop on Oct 14, 2015 6:29:56 GMT 1
So in reality if things carry on as they are we will be part time in first division get a grip alk managers who don't perform get the sack latest in Scotland Jackie mcnamara like I've said before we're not fit enough to compete that's fit as in excersise I like burchy but I think he should take a back seat
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Post by toplion on Oct 14, 2015 7:45:36 GMT 1
Fairly obvious really...criticism is easy, being a successful manager isn't, if it was we'd all be doing it. Burchill is a young manager who got pelters last season until he & the team turned it around. He is getting pelters again this season for a bad start (no one is claiming its a good start) but given the circumstances & the way games have developed its not all been his fault, but the armchair managers are calling for his head & second guessing every decision. Football people should be taken to the work places of the fans & be given the opportunity to assess the performance of the fans in their jobs. I can just see it "Look at the way that guy is stacking those shelves, what an idiot...sacked in the morning, you're getting sacked in the morning!" "What about that banker over there, he's useless, he'll never give a loan, he'll never give a loan!" "Come on Postie, get on with it, get those letters in those letter boxes or that won't be the only sack you'll get!" It's a results driven business not a performance driven business. These are all his players, who he isn't getting the best out off. He seems to want to be everyone's pal rather than be the boss. A team bottom of he league should not be given a reward of 3 days off so early on into a campaign. |
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Post by jonsnow on Oct 14, 2015 15:33:23 GMT 1
You can take as many positives from games as you like, but without getting points on the board we are doomed The avoidable goals we lose week in week out from suicidal back passes and failing to defend set pieces should be getting worked on, make the guys train more until we cut out the mistakes and start winning regularly again The positives suggest our results will improve over the next quarter, if not then yes we're doomed to another relegation battle.
Still far too early to be wanting the manager sacked, don't actually think it does clubs that are in trouble much good in the long term either, more often than not they find themselves back in the same position the next season and their only solution is to sack another one. Since Bollan we've gone through at least one manager a season, our problems are far more deep seated than the easy quick fix of replacing the manager.
I'd prefer seeing us giving Burchill a chance to get us off the bottom and keeping us in the league for another season, if for no other reason than a bit of stability in the playing staff, so he gets a chance to build a team for next season that gives us a half decent chance to compete in the league. No off field shenanigans buggering it up on field, embargoes, points deductions etc.
For once I'd like to see us have the same manager two seasons running and that he gets a fighting chance on building a team. We've seen all our best players leave/punted and managers having to throw a team together then get sacked and the same again with the new manager. Or even worse having a signing embargo stopping a manager from keeping the out of contract players he wanted and not even being able to bring new ones in, then having to go for his second or third choice targets.
Oh for a bit of continuity and a chance to build from the previous season so we aren't having to struggle down at the bottom of the table. |
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Post by Auldnick on Oct 14, 2015 23:52:30 GMT 1
Have to agree JS; not sure I understand why folk giving players 3 days off is such a heinous crime when there has been an "international break" & therefore rest is a reasonable option.
I guarantee you if they had been in training for those 3 days & 3 players picked up injuries that meant they would miss the next 3 games, the same folk would be whinging about unnecessary activity & how crap Burchill is for not taking better care of them.
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Post by livimoaner on Oct 19, 2015 14:09:49 GMT 1
Fairly obvious really...criticism is easy, being a successful manager isn't, if it was we'd all be doing it. Burchill is a young manager who got pelters last season until he & the team turned it around. He is getting pelters again this season for a bad start (no one is claiming its a good start) but given the circumstances & the way games have developed its not all been his fault, but the armchair managers are calling for his head & second guessing every decision. Football people should be taken to the work places of the fans & be given the opportunity to assess the performance of the fans in their jobs. I can just see it "Look at the way that guy is stacking those shelves, what an idiot...sacked in the morning, you're getting sacked in the morning!" "What about that banker over there, he's useless, he'll never give a loan, he'll never give a loan!" "Come on Postie, get on with it, get those letters in those letter boxes or that won't be the only sack you'll get!" I would disagree. Being successful is a limited possibility, but you can enhance your chances for success by what you do, such skills are exactly that skills and can be learned or transferred. What I would say though it is easier to be unsuccessful. This is achieved and justified by doing exactly what everyone else does in the same role or job. Doing that same as others is so easy because it is naturalistic, (conforming, doing the same as others) doing as those around you do avoids additional criticism. Being unsuccessful is a recognition of how successful such an attitude is, we can all copy others and achieve the same level of success, we can all be successful at doing badly. Being different, doing different is the hard part. It requires self awareness and critical thinking and needs knowledge of triple loop learning for example. Anyone read and trained in leadership could teach Mark these skills. This leaves Mark with a choice. 1 he elects to carry on as he does now, the chance of being successful in this, (achieving no or little success) would be high meaning that the team would be unsuccessful. 2 he takes a risk by doing different things to the norm, this would be high risk, (exposed as doing things different and therefore open to criticism) but the chance of success, (the team doing successfully) is higher although the realisation of success, (knowing what the outcome will be) will be less. So i suggest at present anyone commenting on this thread can be as successful as Mark because Mark does the same as anyone else in his position and as such anyone can do that. |
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Post by Auldnick on Oct 19, 2015 23:07:55 GMT 1
Its not about being "different", its about being "better", football is a simple game, you & your team mates try to propel the spherical bouncy rolling thing into the net being held by 3 big white sticks while your opponents try to prevent this & do the same to you while you try to prevent them. The guys who win have generally been better at propelling the spherical bouncy rolling thing into their opponents net. I say generally because it can be a freak incident whereby your team manages to put the spherical bouncy rolling thing into their own net; in this instance the team that wins has been better at keeping the spherical bouncy rolling thing out of their own net.
And could anyone posting on here be as successful as say, Pep Guardiola? No, thought not. you see you are making my point for me; it is easy to criticise but it is not easy to be better. Simply doing different things than the opposition is no guarantee of success, if it were then Alloa would be in the top tier & winning it, because they are the only club I've seen using the bungee type warm up routines.
You are continually harping on about doing different things but your suggestions have been things like "they should train at the same time as they play" but then you say 3pm everyday for training...but they don't play at 3pm every day , they play at 3pm most Saturdays. Did Celtic win the European Cup by training at 7.30pm every night? No, they won it by scoring more goals than their opponents by being better at propelling the spherical bouncy rolling thing into their opponents net & better at preventing it from entering their own net.
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Post by livimoaner on Oct 20, 2015 13:01:56 GMT 1
Auldnick,
My point is simple.
If we train the same way as other teams, play the same way as other teams, eat the same way as other teams if we do the same as every other team, how can we get better? For performance is comparative, how well we do compared to them. Unless every other team stops training, stops doing fitness there is no way in the world training in the same manner will improve our performance, it cannot for every other team is doing the same.The only way your argument works is if we replace all our players, which we have to agree will not happen.
So if doing the same will not make us better, we have to do different.
What you are talking about is vanilla ice cream. The manager decides that as every team in the league has vanilla ice cream so will we. But not everyone likes vanilla they may prefer chocolate or raspberry or them may not even likes ice cream.
So what a real manager has to do is find the things the players need, (not like) to make them successful he needs to perform a training needs analysis of his players individually and as a team. The playing thing as you say the simple bit, it is the bit about improving individual skills, team skills, individual and collective decision making individual and team fitness where a difference can be made.
(This is out of flow but we have used the stretchy bands)
For example could the players be invited to create a performance improvement committee, how are the players encouraged to be responsible for their own and team performances, is the manager receiving peer observation and feedback, does he have a CPD programme to help as he we have to admit started as a novice.
Clive Woodward said that he no intention doing what others had done before him, he also said that he would use any method or any other sport or professional learning to gain even a 1% improvement in any part of his team.
By the way Celtic won by having the best players. Celtic will never win again as the top 8 clubs buy the best players, (no coincidence that the top 8 in that competition have also been in the top 14 richest clubs in the world including any sport) and as I have said we do not have the money.
As if anyone can be as successful as Pep Guardia....the only true test of that is to give a person exactly the same opportunities and resources, that can never happen. But I bet that I am as good at my job as he is at his. I was not born being able to do those skills, I learned them, as did he, so I suggest given the same nature and nurture yes anyone can do the same as him.
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Post by livimoaner on Oct 20, 2015 13:14:22 GMT 1
By the way I am not calling for Mark to be sacked.
I am asking for Mark to be made into a better manager.
I believe such skills are trainable not part of pack you are dealt with at birth, therefore with the right mentoring and training Mark can be a better manager, it is also the cheaper solution.
I also think that the right level of talent required of a manager to get us out of the mess is not available at the price we can afford. So why not develop a man with potential into that skill level? lets develop Mark.
Ask those that are expert in management development and they will tell you that leadership is a transferable skill as is management.
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Post by Auldnick on Oct 21, 2015 23:37:02 GMT 1
My Pep Guardiola question was rhetorical....my point on the fact that football management is not as easy as some on here seem to believe (no doubt they have played & done well in the computer game) if it were that easy, then the "keyboard-managers" would actually be employed at a real club & doing better than those they criticise (remember I said criticism was easy?) so your comment that we could all be as successful as Mark Burchill...well as things stand of course we could...any mug can manage a losing team. However, could we have achieved the results he & the lads achieved from March to May this year? I think not. I wonder if he did anything different in his training sessions etc ahead of & during that run of success than he had done in the previous 4 months or so?
Yes people can be trained to be managers & it would be wonderful having someone as an experienced guide for Mark but that requires spending money on a "management guru" unless Fergie is maybe bored & fancies giving back to the game that made him a multi-millionaire & doing it for free...and you make my point for me on the Celtic comment.
Don't forget most footballers are footballers because they were good at football & not much else. There are exceptions of course but the aftermatch interviews are very telling in the skill of struggling to string 2 sentences together without resorting to cliché & platitudes. That's why so few players actually become managers & with the advent of wall to wall coverage of the sport there is easy money in being a pundit, especially if you are the fortunate footballer who actually CAN string two sentences together.
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