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Post by toughatthetop on Sept 6, 2015 11:18:04 GMT 1
We had a reserve team last season which would keep players match fit we are the only team in Scotland not to have one he saved us last season
Only by us getting a penalty we've lost better players than we have signed the likes of sheerin are good junior players but when's he ever going to prove himself to be a regular and giving Cole captaincy that was just ludicrous
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joma
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Post by joma on Sept 6, 2015 11:47:13 GMT 1
White is our top scorer this season so far, he was last season too.
He is mocked week in week out by a section of our support, why I don't know because he is one of our most effective players both offensively and defensively.
Sure I think he should win more headers too, but have a look through all our goals since he came and there are lots of headers involved , it's time to give the big guy a break from the constant moaning because if all the other players did their job and contributed as much as that lad had done then we would be in a far better position.
Also think him and Sheerin could link up well, look at tthe two goals recently against Clyde and the goal yesterday and come back and say I was right
Not a bad contribution from two guys who one supposedly can't jump and another who is just a fatty junior player.
Time for fans to wake up and not slag Sheerin off against White and vice versa let's start to think outside the box and say these two guys could be a great partnership , players who compliment each other.
Let's support them both
Go on have a look at the videos of the Clyde game , and yesterday's when it becomes available
Sherrins goal got me thinking WOW these two guys could play together, that was the big positive from yesterdays game.
Two big guys frightening the life out of the opposition our own Scottish Champiomship version of Sutton and Shearer.
Cmon Burchy make it happen
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Post by toplion on Sept 6, 2015 13:44:39 GMT 1
It's the same every time you sack a manager there is always someone decent out there looking for a new gig.
There has been no HEART in the team this season and I don't see us rolling our sleeves up and getting stuck in. This has to be down to Burchills leadership remember he is a rookie manager
Not sure there is any point going to Ibrox to pay over the odds and see a humping. Think I will pocket that money and save the effort giving I can't see the players giving any.
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Post by jonsnow on Sept 6, 2015 18:01:07 GMT 1
Never a red card for Gordon, should've been a yellow. Gary Glen got the same thing done to him last week and Stewart got a yellow for it. In fact the kick one of our players got after he'd passed the ball didn't even get a yellow and it was worse than Gordon's foul on Barr. Wasted the game for us as it was pretty even up till then with both teams playing attacking football. Agree that it would've been better for Gordon to tug his shirt or fall into him and take him down though, as we did later on and got away with not even a foul being given against us. Some good passages of play before that and signs of being better in front of goal, difficult to judge the defending as the sending off contributed to their first goal and has been mentioned the formation after that left us exposed on the counter to be picked off chasing the game. Not a good day at all with results going other teams way too and dropping to the bottom of the table. I'd like to see White and Sheerin paired up with Glen playing in behind them, not confident Burchill will play 2 up front at Ibrox though, prob stick with Buchanan as the lone striker and play defensively. I fear a thumping coming up. Duhhhh, eehhh, Duhhhhh what game were you watching yesterday? Clear Red, Thuggish behaviour from an experienced player is unacceptable at this level. It was an awful tackle, a moment of complete madness. The idiot should be fined heavily. He deserved the red card simple. Poppycock, was less thuggish than the one they didn't even get booked for wiping us out after our player had passed the ball and no worse than last weeks when Glen was fouled by Stewart when he was past him heading for goal, and Stewart only got a yellow. Professional foul kicking his leg off his other leg to trip him up.
What also annoyed me was Anderson isn't even a card happy ref, he was reluctant to book a Morton player and only produced 2 yellow cards yesterday, one each, if it had been Collum then I would have expected nothing else but a red as he's card happy and loves sending players off, mostly their reds get rescinded the following week. |
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Post by jonsnow on Sept 6, 2015 18:26:04 GMT 1
Everybody needs to calm down. It's a long hard season ahead and anyone who thought it would be anything other than that was a fantasist. We all have opinions about who should play and what tactics should be employed. But I'm happy to leave it to MB - he did a great job towards the end of last season and transformed the team's fortunes. He can do so again. We haven't got a settled team yet. When we do, I'm sure we'll be fine. It needs patience. I'd like to see Morgyn Neill get a game. He was strong and athletic in the preseason games - rock solid and no nonsense defending in those matches. Keeping 11 players on the pitch for more than half an hour would also help the manager. Exactly, we've a small budget and only about 700 Livi fans turning up, I think some of our fans need to realise we aren't going to get top class players and need to try giving the manager some time for a change. I'm sick of us sacking managers every season and thinking we'll magically improve on a low budget squad with attendances comparable to PT teams. |
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Post by colcal on Sept 6, 2015 18:29:46 GMT 1
Nonsense - there's no debate whatsoever that it was a red card. Any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous. Easiest decision that the ref had to make all day. Every referee would have shown a red card in those circumstances. There are different interpretations week in and week out - but not on simple decisions like this one.
The plain fact is that Ben Gordob had a clanger and it cost us the game. Not a thing that the manager or his team mates can do when he gives the referee no choice but to send him off. Individual errors don't come any bigger, especially since it also means an automatic suspension. I imagine his team mates were incandescent with rage at having to run around for a whole hour without their full complement in the pitch.
In summary, if Gorodon doesn't take the guy out so stupidly, it would have been 11 against 11 and who knows what the outcome of the game would have been. I'd be confident that it wouldn't have been 4-2 to Morton.
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Post by jonsnow on Sept 6, 2015 18:47:51 GMT 1
Nonsense - there's no debate whatsoever that it was a red card. Any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous. Easiest decision that the ref had to make all day. Every referee would have shown a red card in those circumstances. There are different interpretations week in and week out - but not on simple decisions like this one. The plain fact is that Ben Gordob had a clanger and it cost us the game. Not a thing that the manager or his team mates can do when he gives the referee no choice but to send him off. Individual errors don't come any bigger, especially since it also means an automatic suspension. I imagine his team mates were incandescent with rage at having to run around for a whole hour without their full complement in the pitch. In summary, if Gorodon doesn't take the guy out so stupidly, it would have been 11 against 11 and who knows what the outcome of the game would have been. I'd be confident that it wouldn't have been 4-2 to Morton.
Certainly isn't ridiculous, however the red card was and should have been a yellow.
You telling me the foul on our player on the halfway line wasn't worse than Gordon's their player didn't have any intention of going for the ball and wiped our player out after he'd passed the ball, that didn't even get a yellow. Or Glen having his legs kicked from under him last week when he'd gotten past Stewart was in any way different from Gordon's red but only merited a yellow card.
Callum Carson sports writer for the Courier also sees it as a ridiculous decision by the ref.
Callum Carson @callumcarson34 · Sep 5
See almost every game and it's never been anything more than a yellow card.
Callum Carson @callumcarson34 · Sep 5
The red card was deliberate and he made no intent to go for the ball - but I've never in my life seen a red card given for that.
Callum Carson @callumcarson34 · Sep 5
It was neither serious foul play or denying a goal scoring opportunity. Utterly bemused.
Callum Carson @callumcarson34 · Sep 5
RED CARD. Ben Gordon sent-off for a foul. Shocking decision.
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Post by jonsnow on Sept 6, 2015 19:04:01 GMT 1
I agree 100% with Burchill's comments on it;
Callum Carson @callumcarson34 · Sep 5
Mark Burchill says Ben Gordon should have been 'cuter' when making the challenge but says 90% of the time it's a yellow card.
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Post by toughatthetop on Sept 6, 2015 19:32:38 GMT 1
At the end of the day we lost 3 points and that's 3 points we cannot afford to loose we can go on all day till the cows come home but it's not going to get overturned and if it did the points are still lost in truth be told were not a championship side we belong a bit lower
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Post by colcal on Sept 6, 2015 21:01:41 GMT 1
The red card is not a debating point. It was a clear red card. I'm a referee and I'd have sent him off too. Serious foul play, endangering the safety of an opponent and using excessive force is a clear ordering off offence. Gordon made no attempt whatsoever to play the ball. He cleaned the player out in a brutal way. Simple red card.
Can't see how it was Burchill's fault so all this nonsense about changing the manager is a total distraction.
Let's get behind the manager and the team. We're a better squad than some of the others, which will pan out over the 36 games in the league.
It's not a time for supposed quick fixes, knee-jerk reactions and squeaky bums. It's a time to rally round, unite and support the team.
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Post by orco on Sept 6, 2015 21:33:01 GMT 1
If every defender got sent off for playing the man instead of the ball there would be a load of red cards every week. It was a professional foul. It was not a goal scoring opportunity and no one got hurt. The ref has yellow cards in his pocket too and one of those would have sufficed.
Football involves opinion. I have one opinion on this and you have another You may be a referee but that does not give you some enhanced ability to make a better judgement than the ordinary fan.
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Post by colcal on Sept 6, 2015 21:47:32 GMT 1
True, opinions are important but the laws of the game are clear and the referee had no choice but to order off Ben Gordon. He would have been slaughtered if he hadn't sent Gordon off.
The main point is that Gordon lost us the game by his stupidity. He should have known better. It was a shocker of a tackle. Had he stayed in the park - maybe with a shirt tug or simple trip - we'd be discussing a different situation.
Certainly no talk of managers being sacked.
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Post by theflashingblade on Sept 6, 2015 22:03:59 GMT 1
There certainly is where I sit. He got lucky last year. He's getting found out this year.
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Post by Auldnick on Sept 6, 2015 23:41:20 GMT 1
Never a red card for Gordon, should've been a yellow. Gary Glen got the same thing done to him last week and Stewart got a yellow for it. In fact the kick one of our players got after he'd passed the ball didn't even get a yellow and it was worse than Gordon's foul on Barr. Wasted the game for us as it was pretty even up till then with both teams playing attacking football. Agree that it would've been better for Gordon to tug his shirt or fall into him and take him down though, as we did later on and got away with not even a foul being given against us. Some good passages of play before that and signs of being better in front of goal, difficult to judge the defending as the sending off contributed to their first goal and has been mentioned the formation after that left us exposed on the counter to be picked off chasing the game. Not a good day at all with results going other teams way too and dropping to the bottom of the table. I'd like to see White and Sheerin paired up with Glen playing in behind them, not confident Burchill will play 2 up front at Ibrox though, prob stick with Buchanan as the lone striker and play defensively. I fear a thumping coming up. Been to Specsavers lately? They have some good deals on. It was a deliberate trip, nothing more nothing less. He didn't slide in and wipe him out, he didn't leave his feet, it wasn't a dangerous challenge or an aggressive one. He knew he was getting away & deliberately tripped him. There were worse tackles by Morton players throughout the match that went unpunished in terms of cards being shown. He was not the last man, nor did he prevent a clear goal scoring opportunity. It was a foul & it should have been a yellow. |
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Post by Auldnick on Sept 6, 2015 23:53:37 GMT 1
The red card is not a debating point. It was a clear red card. I'm a referee and I'd have sent him off too. Serious foul play, endangering the safety of an opponent and using excessive force is a clear ordering off offence. Gordon made no attempt whatsoever to play the ball. He cleaned the player out in a brutal way. Simple red card. Can't see how it was Burchill's fault so all this nonsense about changing the manager is a total distraction. Let's get behind the manager and the team. We're a better squad than some of the others, which will pan out over the 36 games in the league. It's not a time for supposed quick fixes, knee-jerk reactions and squeaky bums. It's a time to rally round, unite and support the team. Then you would be another error making ref in Scotland; nothing new there. It wasn't serious foul play, it didn't endanger the safety of an opponent & it wasn't excessive force. It was a foul, no argument, but worse went unpunished. The ref couldn't get the red card out quickly enough, he took no time to think about it at all, just made a knee jerk reaction to the Morton bench & the Morton player (didn't even notice who it was) rolling over numerous times - usually a clear indication that the player isn't hurt but is looking to get a reaction from the ref. Agree 100% with the rest of your post. |
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Post by Auldnick on Sept 6, 2015 23:58:00 GMT 1
True, opinions are important but the laws of the game are clear and the referee had no choice but to order off Ben Gordon. He would have been slaughtered if he hadn't sent Gordon off. The main point is that Gordon lost us the game by his stupidity. He should have known better. It was a shocker of a tackle. Had he stayed in the park - maybe with a shirt tug or simple trip - we'd be discussing a different situation. Certainly no talk of managers being sacked. Yes he did; in the same way he made the choice not to issue any cards for worse tackles later in the game. No it wasn't; it happens regularly & is only ever a red when it is a last man/goal scoring opportunity situation. It was a deliberate simple trip. |
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Post by jonsnow on Sept 7, 2015 1:47:05 GMT 1
The red card is not a debating point. It was a clear red card. I'm a referee and I'd have sent him off too. Serious foul play, endangering the safety of an opponent and using excessive force is a clear ordering off offence. Gordon made no attempt whatsoever to play the ball. He cleaned the player out in a brutal way. Simple red card. Can't see how it was Burchill's fault so all this nonsense about changing the manager is a total distraction. Let's get behind the manager and the team. We're a better squad than some of the others, which will pan out over the 36 games in the league. It's not a time for supposed quick fixes, knee-jerk reactions and squeaky bums. It's a time to rally round, unite and support the team. Maybe not a debating point for you but I disagree that it was dangerous and you being a ref makes no odds to you being right either. Plenty refs are wrong officiating in the SPFL every week and 2 got wrong sendings off last week in Premiership games. Last week McKendrick chose to issue a yellow for the exact same kind of foul on Gary Glen, on Saturday Anderson chose to keep his cards in his pocket for a tackle far worse than Gordon's, and a few weeks back Kevin Graham chose to only give a yellow for a dangerous lunge from Kidd into Hippo who was on the ground. |
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Post by colcal on Sept 7, 2015 17:43:43 GMT 1
It's all about opinions. I'll agree with you that the ref was wrong if the highlights show that Gordon simply tripped the opponent. But my recollection was that his tackle was up around thigh high and he was unbelievably late. In doing both of those things, it was clear that he made no attempt to play the ball. Straight red.
If the highlights show something different then I'd agree the ref got it wrong. If they show it the way I recall it at the time, then a red card was entirely correct and justified.
Either way, it was a stupid thing for an experienced player to do and it cost us the game.
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Post by jonsnow on Sept 9, 2015 9:28:23 GMT 1
It's all about opinions. I'll agree with you that the ref was wrong if the highlights show that Gordon simply tripped the opponent. But my recollection was that his tackle was up around thigh high and he was unbelievably late. In doing both of those things, it was clear that he made no attempt to play the ball. Straight red. If the highlights show something different then I'd agree the ref got it wrong. If they show it the way I recall it at the time, then a red card was entirely correct and justified. Either way, it was a stupid thing for an experienced player to do and it cost us the game. Def wasn't up at his thigh, after watching the highlights I'm even more convinced it was a trip and should've been a yellow card.
Dear knows what Gallagher was trying to do with that pass back to DJ for the first goal. Some goal from Sheerin though, that's how to stick it in the net.
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Post by livimoaner on Sept 9, 2015 13:24:54 GMT 1
School boys are taught that when passing back, the ball is not directed towards goal, when taught they are given the possible case of the goalie missing the ball with his kick and it going in.
School boys are taught that by the way.
So what do these professional players learn?
Are we making a false assumption that because they are pros they understand the basics?
Maybe it is time for some homework? or at least extra training.
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Post by haggis on Sept 9, 2015 22:00:03 GMT 1
School boys are taught that when passing back, the ball is not directed towards goal, when taught they are given the possible case of the goalie missing the ball with his kick and it going in. No, a pass to a goalkeeper is a normal pass. Nobody is taught to cater for a goalkeeper who cannot control or kick a football competently. Gallagher made a very bad decision to pass to Jamieson in that situation and then he executed his pass terribly also. Gallagher is normally composed when in possession being harried by opposition forwards so I was surprised to see him panic so badly this time. |
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Post by Auldnick on Sept 9, 2015 22:53:25 GMT 1
Guys, DJ is most at fault on the 1st; Dec has an attacker chasing him down; he probably should have just cleared the ball into the stand for a throw in but in the modern game player use the keeper as a sweeper & as such he needed DJ to give him an out ball by making an angle for him to play a pass to that he could then clear; but DJ comes haring out as if he think Dec is a forward bearing down on goal. If you watch Dec's head position he doesn't actually look towards DJ until he goes to play it to him.
I think those highlights clear up the fact that the foul by Gordon was never a red card in a million years but exactly as described by those of us who have been arguing this from the start. Yes, its a foul but it is a simple deliberate trip, nothing more.
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Post by jonsnow on Sept 10, 2015 2:46:27 GMT 1
I tend to agree with LM on not passing it towards your own goal in a pass back, Burchill said as much last season when Mensing scored an og doing exactly that. Heard it said many times from pros you're taught not to do that.
Anyway it was the wrong thing to do with it being so close to our own goal and players inside the box as well as the one bearing down on Gallagher, even if he'd managed to pass it back, DJ would have been immediately under pressure to clear it. should just have put it out.
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Post by misdemeanor on Sept 10, 2015 8:45:34 GMT 1
For Me DJ is a bomb scare, at the moment. I say that as my snuggies are filled at every pass back, indeed he was clearly at fault with the first goal, as once again his concentration level seemed to desert him, unfortunately not for the first time this season.
The red card issue, was a red card does not matter what way you cut the cloth, but realistically we should have had enough talent and experience still with 10 men to do the job on a side that was not tremendous lets be honest.
Two difficult games ahead, I do agree that we all need to rally around the club, and if we could all bring a friend, mate or random per season ticket holder to the next game, that would be fantastic.
The question is will it be 6 or 7 on Saturday? Still going,love getting spat on and abused.
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Post by livimoaner on Sept 10, 2015 12:11:25 GMT 1
School boys are taught that when passing back, the ball is not directed towards goal, when taught they are given the possible case of the goalie missing the ball with his kick and it going in. No, a pass to a goalkeeper is a normal pass. Nobody is taught to cater for a goalkeeper who cannot control or kick a football competently. Gallagher made a very bad decision to pass to Jamieson in that situation and then he executed his pass terribly also. Gallagher is normally composed when in possession being harried by opposition forwards so I was surprised to see him panic so badly this time. Having received coaching and doing coaching sanctioned by SFA accreditation, the conscientious was a pass back should be played so as not able to go in the goal if left alone, be sympathetic to the goalie, ie with enough time to the play the ball and with a favoured foot, and should only be done if safe to do so, the passer being responsible while hopefully informed by the receiver. |
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