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Post by themonkey on Jun 16, 2015 22:51:09 GMT 1
That sort of behaviour would not pass the fit & proper test ?
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Post by Auldnick on Jun 16, 2015 23:55:40 GMT 1
If Martindale has been convicted & done the time required of him then he has every right to a job & the chance to earn an honest living. OK his crime appears to be abhorrent to most including me but (and I have never met him so don't know...I dare say the same is true for most of you) he may be a reformed character who has seen the error of his ways & regrets his previous lifestyle & is now trying to make a positive contribution to society; so unless you all have proof that he is STILL involved in such things, give the guy a break.
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Post by durnford on Jun 17, 2015 9:24:42 GMT 1
If Martindale has been convicted & done the time required of him then he has every right to a job & the chance to earn an honest living. OK his crime appears to be abhorrent to most including me but (and I have never met him so don't know...I dare say the same is true for most of you) he may be a reformed character who has seen the error of his ways & regrets his previous lifestyle & is now trying to make a positive contribution to society; so unless you all have proof that he is STILL involved in such things, give the guy a break. Sorry but we're not going to agree on this one. Although he completed some of the six year sentence it doesn't wipe the slate clean; he would not achieve total disclosure Scotland clearance necessary as a base minimum to work with children and vulnerable adults. He may be entitled to try to earn a living as part of the rehabilitation of offenders process but a football club is a different type of business as their own code of conduct charter would contest although 1.14 might be particularly appropriate - Coaches must provide guidance and support to players on the dangers of drug abuse. When Martindale got into dealing he was not a kid but old enough to know better; this was not some addict trying to fund his own habit but the very core of organised crime. I believe he was also attending Herriot Watt as a mature student so would have had a substantial influence over his peers. Incidentally his term in prison also allowed him to finish his degree. I believe he owns another business based on project management in the construction industry and have no gripe with him continuing on this consultancy; he has a right to try to earn a living after all; but placing him in a position of responsibility within a football club; or school or sports club etc. really is totally inappropriate. This cannot do anything but damage our place in the community which is already seriously beleaguered. Hopefully when Ford and his partners are appointed to the board this is something he will put right. |
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Post by livijimbo on Jun 17, 2015 20:29:12 GMT 1
Hello everyone  I am back was away for 3 weeks on holiday with the wife. So it seems all is rosey?  We can sign players Rankine has fecked off Ford is the new man LFL had a great meeting with club We're starting to sign players Pre season starts Monday Let's get the show on the road - hip, hip, hooray! |
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tjd
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Post by tjd on Jun 17, 2015 21:59:17 GMT 1
What role does David Martindale occupy at Livingston FC? What is the name of 'the accountant'? It's my understanding that David Martindale has been running the day-to-day aspects of the club in Neil's absence. David Brash is the accountant. |
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Post by themonkey on Jun 17, 2015 22:03:08 GMT 1
What role does David Martindale occupy at Livingston FC? What is the name of 'the accountant'? It's my understanding that David Martindale has been running the day-to-day aspects of the club in Neil's absence. David Brash is the accountant. The big question to be answered is what is his role going to be going forward? |
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Post by Auldnick on Jun 17, 2015 22:55:37 GMT 1
If Martindale has been convicted & done the time required of him then he has every right to a job & the chance to earn an honest living. OK his crime appears to be abhorrent to most including me but (and I have never met him so don't know...I dare say the same is true for most of you) he may be a reformed character who has seen the error of his ways & regrets his previous lifestyle & is now trying to make a positive contribution to society; so unless you all have proof that he is STILL involved in such things, give the guy a break. Sorry but we're not going to agree on this one. Although he completed some of the six year sentence it doesn't wipe the slate clean; he would not achieve total disclosure Scotland clearance necessary as a base minimum to work with children and vulnerable adults. He may be entitled to try to earn a living as part of the rehabilitation of offenders process but a football club is a different type of business as their own code of conduct charter would contest although 1.14 might be particularly appropriate - Coaches must provide guidance and support to players on the dangers of drug abuse. When Martindale got into dealing he was not a kid but old enough to know better; this was not some addict trying to fund his own habit but the very core of organised crime. I believe he was also attending Herriot Watt as a mature student so would have had a substantial influence over his peers. Incidentally his term in prison also allowed him to finish his degree. I believe he owns another business based on project management in the construction industry and have no gripe with him continuing on this consultancy; he has a right to try to earn a living after all; but placing him in a position of responsibility within a football club; or school or sports club etc. really is totally inappropriate. This cannot do anything but damage our place in the community which is already seriously beleaguered. Hopefully when Ford and his partners are appointed to the board this is something he will put right. Is he doing either of those things? If not then the point is irrelevant. |
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Post by durnford on Jun 18, 2015 10:20:24 GMT 1
Sorry but we're not going to agree on this one. Although he completed some of the six year sentence it doesn't wipe the slate clean; he would not achieve total disclosure Scotland clearance necessary as a base minimum to work with children and vulnerable adults. He may be entitled to try to earn a living as part of the rehabilitation of offenders process but a football club is a different type of business as their own code of conduct charter would contest although 1.14 might be particularly appropriate - Coaches must provide guidance and support to players on the dangers of drug abuse. When Martindale got into dealing he was not a kid but old enough to know better; this was not some addict trying to fund his own habit but the very core of organised crime. I believe he was also attending Herriot Watt as a mature student so would have had a substantial influence over his peers. Incidentally his term in prison also allowed him to finish his degree. I believe he owns another business based on project management in the construction industry and have no gripe with him continuing on this consultancy; he has a right to try to earn a living after all; but placing him in a position of responsibility within a football club; or school or sports club etc. really is totally inappropriate. This cannot do anything but damage our place in the community which is already seriously beleaguered. Hopefully when Ford and his partners are appointed to the board this is something he will put right. Is he doing either of those things? If not then the point is irrelevant. Actually I think its entirely relevant. You implied that he had served his time and the slate should be wiped clean; I personally disagree. Setting aside the fact that he did not serve anywhere near the full term he was guilty of a sustained and highly organised campaign to exploit possibly hundreds of highly vulnerable youngsters over several years for personal gain without a care about the long term harm he was doing. This was not a one-off abortion but organised crime; I have experience of a couple of other dealers of class A drugs, albeit on a far smaller scale, and they have only one regret; that of getting caught. They actually talk of their times of dealing with a degree of nostalgia; with more money than they could spend and more girls than they knew what to do with; there was no remorse for the people who's lives they'd ruined. In addition his term allowed him to complete his degree and receive a 2:1. In my day he would have been sewing mailbags! Okay he's out now on license with a criminal record and presumably has to earn a living; although it would assume that unlike his repeat offending partner he didn't suffer the indignity of having assess seized. According to the newspapers before he started dealing he was apparently virtually bankrupt following substantial fire damage to one of his uninsured pubs. After prison he has sufficient funds to fund his creation of his construction consultancy and is able to provide Rankine with a significant lump sum payment to allow him into the club. Where would you speculate that money came from? As previously discussed a football club is a part of the community maintaining relationships with some very vulnerable and impressionable people including all you youngsters who come along for training twice a week. This is not the kind of character you want connected with the club in any level. To draw a parody would you be comfortable with a convicted paedophile working for a school in one of their offices even if it was assured that he would never come in contact with any of the pupils? |
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Post by Auldnick on Jun 18, 2015 23:32:23 GMT 1
By parody you obviously mean parallel....but it isn't a parallel; according to reports he was convicted of supplying drugs...that means he had a clientele willing to buy from him, that they were misguided & exploited is very likely & is terrible but they knew what they were doing & chose to do it. A paedophile preys on unwilling victims.
Would I be happy if a paedophile was employed by a school? No, but if I didn't know about it & he didn't re-offend then there would not be any fuss. That is where there IS a parallel. Until the reports I had no idea of Martindale's past & if he is no longer engaged in the activities for which he was imprisoned then why cause a fuss?
When Declan Gallagher gets out would you want him as far away from Livi as possible or would you accept that he is unlikely to re-offend & therefore should be given another chance? After all, if he did what he has been found guilty of then he nearly killed a man.
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Post by durnford on Jun 19, 2015 10:55:30 GMT 1
By parody you obviously mean parallel....but it isn't a parallel; according to reports he was convicted of supplying drugs...that means he had a clientele willing to buy from him, that they were misguided & exploited is very likely & is terrible but they knew what they were doing & chose to do it. A paedophile preys on unwilling victims. Would I be happy if a paedophile was employed by a school? No, but if I didn't know about it & he didn't re-offend then there would not be any fuss. That is where there IS a parallel. Until the reports I had no idea of Martindale's past & if he is no longer engaged in the activities for which he was imprisoned then why cause a fuss? When Declan Gallagher gets out would you want him as far away from Livi as possible or would you accept that he is unlikely to re-offend & therefore should be given another chance? After all, if he did what he has been found guilty of then he nearly killed a man. Sorry Auldnick but we're not going to agree here. Firstly there are many types of paedophile; the one you have obviously highlighted but how about the teacher that had thousands of images of kids being abused on his PC. These are not victimless crimes although that teacher may not have been directly responsible for their abuse he, and others, created the demand. Would you be happy for this teacher to continue to teach if he hadn’t actually committed a crime against any of his pupils? Moving back to the crime of supplying class A drugs; this is not a case of supply and demand as you have suggested; yes, demand will form part of it from the so called recreational users although the supply to those already addicted could be described as exploiting the vulnerable. This was not an instance of small time supply but a large organised crime over a prolonged period. These campaigns are not successful by supplying to existing demand but has to generate new demand and increase existing demand reliance. New demand is often done by the grooming of small time “pushers” who will try to exert influence to encourage people to start or “upgrade” from lesser controlled substances to more addictive narcotics. Those seventeen and eighteen year-olds staying away from home in the halls of residence must be a prime target; initially substances are supplied as “freebee’s” to start to generate the demand; strength of the “cut is also varied for those existing users to create more of a reliance on the drug reducing (so that they feel they need to use more and then increasing to give the bigger buz). Fortunately the practice of supplying sporting start stickers to kids in junior schools isn’t widespread in Scotland but it goes to show the kind of lengths these people will go to to generate a demand – needless to say the sticky substance that needs to be licked on the sticker doesn’t just contain glue. Gradually the kids develop a reliance on the “stickers” which generates into a habit which can only be funded first by petty theft followed by crime and prostitution. To sanitise this operation as a case of supply and demand is a huge error of judgement in my opinion. It takes a particularly ruthless individual to run this sort of racket without any regard for the long term impact it is having. This guy must have known the kind of business he was generating but did he care? Probably not. I wasn’t too worried about him being involved in assisting the training of the senior team as part of his progression towards his coaching badge but certainly object to him taking a wider role in the club and effectively becoming a spokesman for the club in front of the trust and others. Moving on the the Gallagher case this was a one off incident, dreadful as it may be, influenced by his uncle. He has shown a lot of remorse for what happened and since the event seems to have grown up a whole lot. Many of our own team members have described him as one of the nicest guys you could meet – as bad as it was it was a one off with no other history of violence. I also not that the club are engaging with the rehabilitation programme and providing sports training for inmates at HMP Addiewell. Certainly I can think of at least one coach who would perhaps be better equipped than others to deal with this environment. |
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Post by Auldnick on Jun 19, 2015 18:43:23 GMT 1
By parody you obviously mean parallel....but it isn't a parallel; according to reports he was convicted of supplying drugs...that means he had a clientele willing to buy from him, that they were misguided & exploited is very likely & is terrible but they knew what they were doing & chose to do it. A paedophile preys on unwilling victims. Would I be happy if a paedophile was employed by a school? No, but if I didn't know about it & he didn't re-offend then there would not be any fuss. That is where there IS a parallel. Until the reports I had no idea of Martindale's past & if he is no longer engaged in the activities for which he was imprisoned then why cause a fuss? When Declan Gallagher gets out would you want him as far away from Livi as possible or would you accept that he is unlikely to re-offend & therefore should be given another chance? After all, if he did what he has been found guilty of then he nearly killed a man. Sorry Auldnick but we're not going to agree here. Firstly there are many types of paedophile; the one you have obviously highlighted but how about the teacher that had thousands of images of kids being abused on his PC. These are not victimless crimes although that teacher may not have been directly responsible for their abuse he, and others, created the demand. Would you be happy for this teacher to continue to teach if he hadn’t actually committed a crime against any of his pupils? Moving back to the crime of supplying class A drugs; this is not a case of supply and demand as you have suggested; yes, demand will form part of it from the so called recreational users although the supply to those already addicted could be described as exploiting the vulnerable. This was not an instance of small time supply but a large organised crime over a prolonged period. These campaigns are not successful by supplying to existing demand but has to generate new demand and increase existing demand reliance. New demand is often done by the grooming of small time “pushers” who will try to exert influence to encourage people to start or “upgrade” from lesser controlled substances to more addictive narcotics. Those seventeen and eighteen year-olds staying away from home in the halls of residence must be a prime target; initially substances are supplied as “freebee’s” to start to generate the demand; strength of the “cut is also varied for those existing users to create more of a reliance on the drug reducing (so that they feel they need to use more and then increasing to give the bigger buz). Fortunately the practice of supplying sporting start stickers to kids in junior schools isn’t widespread in Scotland but it goes to show the kind of lengths these people will go to to generate a demand – needless to say the sticky substance that needs to be licked on the sticker doesn’t just contain glue. Gradually the kids develop a reliance on the “stickers” which generates into a habit which can only be funded first by petty theft followed by crime and prostitution. To sanitise this operation as a case of supply and demand is a huge error of judgement in my opinion. It takes a particularly ruthless individual to run this sort of racket without any regard for the long term impact it is having. This guy must have known the kind of business he was generating but did he care? Probably not. I wasn’t too worried about him being involved in assisting the training of the senior team as part of his progression towards his coaching badge but certainly object to him taking a wider role in the club and effectively becoming a spokesman for the club in front of the trust and others. Moving on the the Gallagher case this was a one off incident, dreadful as it may be, influenced by his uncle. He has shown a lot of remorse for what happened and since the event seems to have grown up a whole lot. Many of our own team members have described him as one of the nicest guys you could meet – as bad as it was it was a one off with no other history of violence. I also not that the club are engaging with the rehabilitation programme and providing sports training for inmates at HMP Addiewell. Certainly I can think of at least one coach who would perhaps be better equipped than others to deal with this environment. Maybe that is to be his role going forward...good forward planning perhaps? I'm not trying to sanitise the crime at all but if people didn't buy drugs for "recreational purposes" there would be no market for them. In some societies where recreational drug use has been made legal, he would be an entrepreneur...not saying he is, IMO drug dealers should be given heavier sentences but as he is now out (whether having served his full term or been let out early for good behaviour or whatever) then let him live his life, especially if he is not re-offending. On your point of the teacher with images on his computer...the teacher may not be directly involved in the abuse that is captured on the images but he is involved in the abuse of the victims in those images as he is not viewing them innocently & is therefore continuing the abuse of those victims. |
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Post by themonkey on Jun 19, 2015 19:29:17 GMT 1
I am with durn ford here.
I hope he does the decent thing and resigns and moves on.
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Post by durnford on Jun 20, 2015 10:34:06 GMT 1
Maybe that is to be his role going forward...good forward planning perhaps? I'm not trying to sanitise the crime at all but if people didn't buy drugs for "recreational purposes" there would be no market for them. In some societies where recreational drug use has been made legal, he would be an entrepreneur...not saying he is, IMO drug dealers should be given heavier sentences but as he is now out (whether having served his full term or been let out early for good behaviour or whatever) then let him live his life, especially if he is not re-offending. On your point of the teacher with images on his computer...the teacher may not be directly involved in the abuse that is captured on the images but he is involved in the abuse of the victims in those images as he is not viewing them innocently & is therefore continuing the abuse of those victims. I don't necessary disagree with this; however I think it is particularly unwise to present him as the public face of Livi FC |
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joma
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by joma on Jun 20, 2015 13:08:03 GMT 1
Some people were aghast of the comments that David Martindale was running the club!
Well after reading through all the posts on here it certainly is not as far fetched a thought is it?
He is in high level talks with the trust , he mans the front desk and he is at the training and is also in the dugout
on match days.
He is certainly in more positions than any member of Livingston Football Club And as such can have an influence on them all.
How many other employees of our club will be in attendance at all these situations, I will list below for the clarification
1 boardroom talks
2 front desk
3 training sessions
4 dugout on match days
Pretty much looks like running the club to me, I would wager a wee bet that he has influence on who is signed and who plays in the team too.
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Post by jonsnow on Jun 20, 2015 18:34:09 GMT 1
Why would he have influence in who Burchill signs and plays?
Sounds like we're paying too many wages here if this guy is doing it all himself, heck of a guy.
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Post by Benedict Le Gauche on Jun 20, 2015 22:25:20 GMT 1
Why would he have influence in who Burchill signs and plays? Sounds like we're paying too many wages here if this guy is doing it all himself, heck of a guy. Let's not be too harsh here. It must be remembered that this Martindale character is rumoured to have paid the under the counter bookmaker a reputed thirty thousand pounds in cash to undertake these many tasks for our wee club. Indeed, one "heck of a guy"! |
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Post by toplion on Jun 28, 2015 18:44:24 GMT 1
Minutes will be published on the trust website. They are still in the process of being typed up and uploaded Is it likely to be this month? Which year will they be published? Is the aim of Supporters Trust to be open & transparent with members, if so LFL is not really doing a good job at it or practicing what it's preaching about. Good to see the recent club meeting minutes there, but every committee meeting should be there with any private discussion being marked so in the agenda. Appreciate its voluntary, but with nomination comes responsibility and the members deserve to see what's being discussed by its office bearers. |
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Post by orco on Jun 28, 2015 23:18:09 GMT 1
Is it likely to be this month? Which year will they be published? Is the aim of Supporters Trust to be open & transparent with members, if so LFL is not really doing a good job at it or practicing what it's preaching about. Good to see the recent club meeting minutes there, but every committee meeting should be there with any private discussion being marked so in the agenda. Appreciate its voluntary, but with nomination comes responsibility and the members deserve to see what's being discussed by its office bearers. Indeed, and the Trust board need people like you toplion. There are vacancies which need to be filled. |
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Post by liviman on Oct 12, 2015 20:24:01 GMT 1
Minutes from both meetings will be posted on the Trust website ASAP but in the meantime, we are happy to answer any specifc questions. Given its now October & we were promised in June to see the minutes current LFL board have just simply ignored the fans again. I know, I accept it is volunteers that run it, but coming with that volunteering comes some level of responsibility to hold up the aims & objectives of LFL and we have to stop coming up with excuses. The current LFL board is not run in an open & transparent way and should simply turn the lights out. They don't seem to represent anyone other than themselves. Alegedley LFL recently attended the first meeting of the community interest company, but yet are not communicating this with anyone never mind the fans they feel they represent. Will the last person please turn the lights out on LFL please. |
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tjd
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Post by tjd on Oct 15, 2015 19:57:48 GMT 1
Minutes from both meetings will be posted on the Trust website ASAP but in the meantime, we are happy to answer any specifc questions. Given its now October & we were promised in June to see the minutes current LFL board have just simply ignored the fans again. I know, I accept it is volunteers that run it, but coming with that volunteering comes some level of responsibility to hold up the aims & objectives of LFL and we have to stop coming up with excuses. The current LFL board is not run in an open & transparent way and should simply turn the lights out. They don't seem to represent anyone other than themselves. Alegedley LFL recently attended the first meeting of the community interest company, but yet are not communicating this with anyone never mind the fans they feel they represent. Will the last person please turn the lights out on LFL please. Hi Liviman Apologies for the delays - the minutes from June to August are now uploaded and September will follow shortly. I know you've concerns about the Trust - if you send me a PM, I can meet with you before the St Mirren match to discuss? |
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Post by liviman on Oct 16, 2015 9:19:03 GMT 1
Given its now October & we were promised in June to see the minutes current LFL board have just simply ignored the fans again. I know, I accept it is volunteers that run it, but coming with that volunteering comes some level of responsibility to hold up the aims & objectives of LFL and we have to stop coming up with excuses. The current LFL board is not run in an open & transparent way and should simply turn the lights out. They don't seem to represent anyone other than themselves. Alegedley LFL recently attended the first meeting of the community interest company, but yet are not communicating this with anyone never mind the fans they feel they represent. Will the last person please turn the lights out on LFL please. Hi Liviman Apologies for the delays - the minutes from June to August are now uploaded and September will follow shortly. I know you've concerns about the Trust - if you send me a PM, I can meet with you before the St Mirren match to discuss? Hi, No need to meet. All I was asking was for the office bearers of LFL to be open & transparent. If we can't do that switch off the lights Tell the the fans what's happening in he world of LFL- if nothing is happening g then just say nothing is happening. |
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Post by jonsnow on Oct 16, 2015 14:36:21 GMT 1
For some reason I've this image in my head of liviman going about in his house telling everyone to turn off the lights.
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Post by livilion on Oct 17, 2015 11:34:03 GMT 1
Hi Liviman Apologies for the delays - the minutes from June to August are now uploaded and September will follow shortly. I know you've concerns about the Trust - if you send me a PM, I can meet with you before the St Mirren match to discuss?^^^ Invitation to a fight IMO. |
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